Human factors RECKLESSNESS

"Ed" wrote in message
...

Thanks Dudley. No surprise you agree. Most people in dangerous
professions learn to think this way, or they become a statistic. Test
pilot, fighter pilot, aerobatic pilot, soldier, police officer, fireman,
mountain climber, stuntman, race car driver ... the same mentality is
essential to success. Learn as much as you can, prepare as much as you
can, and stack the odds in your favor so you reach the end in one piece.

The old saying is wrong. There are plenty of old, bold pilots. But they
are all old, bold, careful pilots. There are no old, bold, careless
pilots.

It has always amazed me about the "hero" tag people for some reason
absolutely insist on associating with professionals who engage in dangerous
work. The truth of it, as I'm sure you are well aware, is that the "heros"
get killed off pretty quickly. It's the people who treat these jobs with the
respect they deserve that live to do it again and again.
Race driver Tom Sneva said it better than I ever could one day after he
smacked the wall at Indy at 230 mph and walked away. A reporter stuck a mike
in Tom's puss as he was walking in and asked him the wrong question
:-) The reporter asked,
"Boy...I bet you'd like to be able to try that corner again wouldn't you
Tom?"
Sneva just looked at the guy like he was nuts and said simply,
"Yeah right! ......if ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we'd ALL have a
Merry Christmas!!!"
In flying....it's knowing when to be bold and when not to be bold that adds
up to the "old" part!! :-)
Dudley

" I wonder how many low passes are done at deserted
airports? "

All my low passes (less than 50 feet) are done at deserted airports.
Otherwise, I'd have to suffer the angst of those who have something to
say. Can you imagine what I'd have to endure if I did a couple of low
passes in succession on a Satruday afternoon? But I don' t want to give
the impression that I never show off... just never to other pilots.
There's no point.

Sometimes I'll stop my progress on a ridge to give some hikers a story
to tell. A few low passes followed by wingovers. When you wave back at
them, you can almost feel their excitement heating up the cockpit. And
let's face it, a wing over on a ridge is an eyeful from the cockpit as
well as from the ground. Good safe fun that pays those below much more
than it costs me.

Sorry if I've wandered off topic, but I was picking through the thread
based on author. Just saw another one of those generalizations that too
many swallow whole without bothering to maw it a little.

Cheers,

OC

"So flying a glider around for pleasure...is to be equated
to exploring space, or Christopher Columbus? "

Depends on what you do with your glider. I'm tempted to answer, YES.
Chris Columbus just did the same thing the Chinese, the Vikings, and
the Egyptians (if you enjoy such suppositions) did before him. Going
somewhere new isn't so much an exploration of a place as it is an
exploration of yourself in that place. And as Homer spent lots of time
saying, "it's the journey that's important." So, YES, absolutely,
flying a glider is the same as exploring space. All the better if you
take some pleasure in it.

OC

What has bothered me most in this thread is the statement,
'Live every day as if it were your last.'

If I knew it were my last, I might take chances that
I would take at no other time because in that situation
there would be no long-term consequences. Living this
way day-to-day puts outcomes on the flip of a coin.
It puts all risk taking at a 50% chance of success.
No one can come up with heads 10 times in a row.
To live life this way means a roman candle kind of
life -- a few big thrills but certainly not many of
them.

Any wisdom contained in the quoted statement is probably
related to using your last day to attending to your
affairs and setting things straight. I wouldn't foreclose
on all those future thrills for this one big one that
also might come up tails.

That's fatalism at its worst.

Yip, live fast die young. Better than sitting in bed at 70 with all
types of disease and cancer eating away at your internal organs. You
can't hide from death, it will come to vist one day and unless you are
religious and believe in the afterlife etc, it doesn't really matter if
it is sooner or later, you will still end up dead!

J.


NW_PILOT wrote:
"private" wrote in message
news:hQ7ce.1148571$8l.556991@pd7tw1no...

My apologies to the Usenet police cross posting but



I am in mourning for friends lost, and in sympathy for the families they
left alone.



This week we have seen behavior that can only be described as reckless.



A man posts video of a poorly performed roll in a non aerobatic aircraft
without regard for ...............to say nothing about his instructor
PARTICIPATING. Two survivors and a questionable aircraft



CFIT A multiple champion pilot losses control while reaching for a $100

side

bet.

One fatal.



911?, fuel exhaustion, over water, without flotation, at night. One
(probable) fatal.



I am tempted to ask why? where are we failing? are we glorifying
recklessness? Are we truly self destructive (cigarettes, food, alcohol,
pollution etc)? what can we do? but



I know that we must each find the answers within ourselves and to strive

for

the personal situational control to handle these situations and

temptations.

Training helps, as do mentors. (Thank you Dudley, Gene etal)



I am sick of hearing "he died doing something he loved". It just sounds
trite.



They are always way too young.



My condolences and sympathy to all mourning family and friends.




Ok what about the people you don't here about all the fools driving cars
talking on cell phone, driving while under the influence of a mind altering
substance like Prozac and the many other pansy pills. "Ohh dont for get
about the other drugs people use"

"You know Moving any faster than a walking pace can be potentially fatal!"

I would not say that we are glorifying recklessness, if it wasn't for people
you call reckless we would still be living in caves. Most of us that are in
to flying or other extreme hobbies have a huge respect for life but also
have that need for that adrenalin. I my-self wake up every day and am very
thankful that I don't have to stick a needle in my arm or suck something up
my nose to get that rush, I have many many other activity's like flying to
get that feeling.

You will Die one day that's a fact of Life!! You cannot hide from it! You
cannot run from it! So embrace the Life you have been given and enjoy it
with every breath you take because you may never know when it may be your
last.

Surely when you arrive at the raddled old fart stage
sat in bed with all sorts of diseases is the time to
call it a day, not when there is plenty of life left
in the bones.

After all some one once said, 'Who wants to be an 85
year old.' Reply, 'An 84 year old'.

As for the religious bit and life after death, I believe
when the lights go out that is it, so enjoy the time
for as long as possible.

On the other hand there may be a grain of truth in
the life after death theory.

Whatever happens one of us will be wrong and wil get
either a nasty or pleasant surprise!

Dave


At 11:00 05 May 2005, Justin Fielding wrote:
Yip, live fast die young. Better than sitting in bed
at 70 with all
types of disease and cancer eating away at your internal
organs. You
can't hide from death, it will come to vist one day
and unless you are
religious and believe in the afterlife etc, it doesn't
really matter if
it is sooner or later, you will still end up dead!

J.


NW_PILOT wrote:
'private' wrote in message
news:hQ7ce.1148571$8l.556991@pd7tw1no...

My apologies to the Usenet police cross posting
but



I am in mourning for friends lost, and in sympathy
for the families they
left alone.



This week we have seen behavior that can only be described
as reckless.



A man posts video of a poorly performed roll in a non
aerobatic aircraft
without regard for ...............to say nothing about
his instructor
PARTICIPATING. Two survivors and a questionable aircraft



CFIT A multiple champion pilot losses control while
reaching for a $100

side

bet.

One fatal.



911?, fuel exhaustion, over water, without flotation,
at night. One
(probable) fatal.



I am tempted to ask why? where are we failing? are
we glorifying
recklessness? Are we truly self destructive (cigarettes,
food, alcohol,
pollution etc)? what can we do? but



I know that we must each find the answers within ourselves
and to strive

for

the personal situational control to handle these situations
and

temptations.

Training helps, as do mentors. (Thank you Dudley, Gene
etal)



I am sick of hearing 'he died doing something he loved'.
It just sounds
trite.



They are always way too young.



My condolences and sympathy to all mourning family
and friends.




Ok what about the people you don't here about all
the fools driving cars
talking on cell phone, driving while under the influence
of a mind altering
substance like Prozac and the many other pansy pills.
'Ohh dont for get
about the other drugs people use'

'You know Moving any faster than a walking pace can
be potentially fatal!'

I would not say that we are glorifying recklessness,
if it wasn't for people
you call reckless we would still be living in caves.
Most of us that are in
to flying or other extreme hobbies have a huge respect
for life but also
have that need for that adrenalin. I my-self wake
up every day and am very
thankful that I don't have to stick a needle in my
arm or suck something up
my nose to get that rush, I have many many other activity's
like flying to
get that feeling.

You will Die one day that's a fact of Life!! You cannot
hide from it! You
cannot run from it! So embrace the Life you have been
given and enjoy it
with every breath you take because you may never know
when it may be your
last.

Justin Fielding wrote

Yip, live fast die young. Better than sitting in bed at 70 with all
types of disease and cancer eating away at your internal organs.

RIGHT !!!

I have now reached that age (70), but spend no more time in bed than
you do and probably spend a lot more time at the airport or in an
airplane than you do. Still a practicing flight instructor with over
20,000 hours of flying behind me and looking forward to lots more.
I was on the receiving end of a Flight Review just last week and the
other instructor was 76 years old. We had a great time in the 47 year
old Cessna 172.

Bob Moore
ATP B-727 B-707 L-188
CFI CFII
Naval Aviator S-2A P-2V P-3B 1958-1967
Pan American Airways 1967-1991 (retired)

Justin Fielding wrote:
Yip, live fast die young. Better than sitting in bed at 70 with all
types of disease and cancer eating away at your internal organs. You
can't hide from death, it will come to vist one day and unless you are
religious and believe in the afterlife etc, it doesn't really matter if
it is sooner or later, you will still end up dead!

Justin, Can I take out some life insurance on you?

Another thought on this well aired subject.

As a raddled old bed ridden fart, the relatives may
just be glad to see the back of you and cash in the
inheritence.

The younger you die someone may just miss you!

So live as long as you can and make 'em wait!



At 13:00 05 May 2005, Dave Martin wrote:
Surely when you arrive at the raddled old fart stage
sat in bed with all sorts of diseases is the time to
call it a day, not when there is plenty of life left
in the bones.

After all some one once said, 'Who wants to be an 85
year old.' Reply, 'An 84 year old'.

As for the religious bit and life after death, I believe
when the lights go out that is it, so enjoy the time
for as long as possible.

On the other hand there may be a grain of truth in
the life after death theory.

Whatever happens one of us will be wrong and wil get
either a nasty or pleasant surprise!

Dave


At 11:00 05 May 2005, Justin Fielding wrote:
Yip, live fast die young. Better than sitting in bed
at 70 with all
types of disease and cancer eating away at your internal
organs. You
can't hide from death, it will come to vist one day
and unless you are
religious and believe in the afterlife etc, it doesn't
really matter if
it is sooner or later, you will still end up dead!

J.


NW_PILOT wrote:
'private' wrote in message
news:hQ7ce.1148571$8l.556991@pd7tw1no...

My apologies to the Usenet police cross posting
but



I am in mourning for friends lost, and in sympathy
for the families they
left alone.



This week we have seen behavior that can only be described
as reckless.



A man posts video of a poorly performed roll in a non
aerobatic aircraft
without regard for ...............to say nothing about
his instructor
PARTICIPATING. Two survivors and a questionable aircraft



CFIT A multiple champion pilot losses control while
reaching for a $100

side

bet.

One fatal.



911?, fuel exhaustion, over water, without flotation,
at night. One
(probable) fatal.



I am tempted to ask why? where are we failing? are
we glorifying
recklessness? Are we truly self destructive (cigarettes,
food, alcohol,
pollution etc)? what can we do? but



I know that we must each find the answers within ourselves
and to strive

for

the personal situational control to handle these situations
and

temptations.

Training helps, as do mentors. (Thank you Dudley, Gene
etal)



I am sick of hearing 'he died doing something he loved'.
It just sounds
trite.



They are always way too young.



My condolences and sympathy to all mourning family
and friends.




Ok what about the people you don't here about all
the fools driving cars
talking on cell phone, driving while under the influence
of a mind altering
substance like Prozac and the many other pansy pills.
'Ohh dont for get
about the other drugs people use'

'You know Moving any faster than a walking pace can
be potentially fatal!'

I would not say that we are glorifying recklessness,
if it wasn't for people
you call reckless we would still be living in caves.
Most of us that are in
to flying or other extreme hobbies have a huge respect
for life but also
have that need for that adrenalin. I my-self wake
up every day and am very
thankful that I don't have to stick a needle in my
arm or suck something up
my nose to get that rush, I have many many other activity's
like flying to
get that feeling.

You will Die one day that's a fact of Life!! You cannot
hide from it! You
cannot run from it! So embrace the Life you have been
given and enjoy it
with every breath you take because you may never know
when it may be your
last.

What I have belatedly discovered is that flying time is NOT
deducted from your life span. At 81. I expect to pass 11,000
hours this year. I got a late start and like every other pilot
regret that I did not start flying sooner.
Gene Whitt