Descending through a thin icing layer

Let's say you take off on a long cross country with no forecast of icing. By
the time you arrive at your destination, a 2,000-foot layer exist below you
with temps of 30 F. You are getting low on fuel. Is it legal to descend
through the thin layer even if you are in an airplane without known icing?

"Wyatt Emmerich" wrote in message
...

Let's say you take off on a long cross country with no forecast of icing.
By
the time you arrive at your destination, a 2,000-foot layer exist below
you
with temps of 30 F. You are getting low on fuel. Is it legal to descend
through the thin layer even if you are in an airplane without known icing?


Who knows? Better play it safe and run out of fuel above the clouds.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Wyatt Emmerich" wrote in message
...

Let's say you take off on a long cross country with no forecast of
icing.
By
the time you arrive at your destination, a 2,000-foot layer exist below
you
with temps of 30 F. You are getting low on fuel. Is it legal to descend
through the thin layer even if you are in an airplane without known
icing?


Who knows? Better play it safe and run out of fuel above the clouds.

Best newsgroup response in months!!!! "-))

icing is a safety issue....flying w/o fuel is also a safety issue.

if you know you're about to run out of fuel (you should have .5
hr reserve if you're a stickler), and if you attempt to fly w/o
knowing how far you'll have to go to get vfr descent...you're
taking a major chance.

also, going thru a cloud layer or rain is not automatic an
automatic fall to the ground like stone situation. in MOST cases
one gets into trouble because of flying quite a while in icing
conditions...ice layer builds up...drag increases...airspeed
decreases...and eventuall stalls.

in your scenario...if you've above the airport AND you're running
short on fuel...setting yourself on the downwind to the active and
descending should be ok. land w/o extending the flaps.

others might disagree...but my point is weighing the two situations -
icing when you're over the airfield w/ running out of fuel.

bman.

p.s. com'n lets build up this newsgroup!!!


"Wyatt Emmerich" wrote in message
...
Let's say you take off on a long cross country with no forecast of icing.
By
the time you arrive at your destination, a 2,000-foot layer exist below
you
with temps of 30 F. You are getting low on fuel. Is it legal to descend
through the thin layer even if you are in an airplane without known icing?

"Bonanza Man" wrote in message
...
icing is a safety issue....flying w/o fuel is also a safety issue.

if you know you're about to run out of fuel (you should have .5
hr reserve if you're a stickler),

You mean .75 hours unless you are a helicopter, I guess I am a stickler!

Sec. 91.167 - Fuel requirements for flight in IFR conditions.
(a) No person may operate a civil aircraft in IFR conditions unless it
carries enough fuel (considering weather reports and forecasts and weather
conditions) to --
(1) Complete the flight to the first airport of intended landing;
(2) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, fly from that
airport to the alternate airport; and
(3) Fly after that for 45 minutes at normal cruising speed or, for
helicopters, fly after that for 30 minutes at normal cruising speed.

Wyatt Emmerich wrote:
Let's say you take off on a long cross country with no forecast of icing. By
the time you arrive at your destination, a 2,000-foot layer exist below you
with temps of 30 F. You are getting low on fuel. Is it legal to descend
through the thin layer even if you are in an airplane without known icing?

If there is no forecast for icing conditions, then it appears you are
legal according to the FAA. However, if you are low on fuel, then
declare and emergency and you shouldn't have a problem with legality at
that point ... assuming you really do have the grounds for the declaration.


Matt

"Wyatt Emmerich" wrote in message
...
Let's say you take off on a long cross country with no forecast of icing.
By
the time you arrive at your destination, a 2,000-foot layer exist below
you
with temps of 30 F. You are getting low on fuel. Is it legal to descend
through the thin layer even if you are in an airplane without known icing?

If you have a safe alternative, then descent through known icing-conditions
would be illegal in that scenario. But if it's the only way you can land
without risking fuel exhaustion, then you use your emergency authority to
override the regulations.

"Wyatt Emmerich" wrote
Let's say you take off on a long cross country with no forecast of icing. By
the time you arrive at your destination, a 2,000-foot layer exist below you
with temps of 30 F. You are getting low on fuel. Is it legal to descend
through the thin layer even if you are in an airplane without known icing?

No, it's not legal.

However, since you are low on fuel and above an icing layer, you are
in an emergency situation. You can thus ignore the prohibition on
operating in known icing conditions (assuming your airplane has one)
and descend anyway, since that's what's required to meet the
emergency.

Your condition is EXACTLY the same as that of a VFR pilot who relied
on a forecast of clear skies over his destination, went over the top,
had the forecast go bust, and is now trapped above a solid layer. The
only difference is that he's more likely to come out of this unscathed
than you.

Michael

Not sure I agree with this - assuming the 2000 foot layer is not too low
AGL, you can bomb down through it in a little over a minute. Although it is
possible to accumulate enough ice in a minute to affect flight, it is pretty
unlikely. The key is not to hang out in the ice. For example, if the ice is
at the same level as the IAF you may want to modify the approach and make it
significantly steeper or shallower, depending on the surrounding terrain and
altitudes. This happened to me in San Marcos once. I just got below the ice
and flew a low visual approach. ATC was very cooperative.

Michael


"Michael" wrote in message
om...
Your condition is EXACTLY the same as that of a VFR pilot who relied
on a forecast of clear skies over his destination, went over the top,
had the forecast go bust, and is now trapped above a solid layer. The
only difference is that he's more likely to come out of this unscathed
than you.

Michael

Your condition is EXACTLY the same as that of a VFR pilot who relied
on a forecast of clear skies over his destination, went over the top,
had the forecast go bust, and is now trapped above a solid layer. The
only difference is that he's more likely to come out of this unscathed
than you.

I would think a well trained IFR pilot could descend through 2,000 feet of
below freezing visible moisture far more safely than a VFR pilot through
non-freezing visble moisture.

I would think in most case, the descent would just pick up a little light
ice and not affect the flight much at all.