Realistic Instrument Training using MSFS 2004

Use it for procedures (only). MSFS is a great way to keep the proper
habits/procedures when you aren't really flying. Forget about using it
for manipulation of controls - with regard to transferring those
"skills" to a real airplane.

For example -

wrote:
Hi All,

I'm a longtime lurker here, but now I have a question I hope the group
can help me with. I am working toward my instrument rating (21 hours
so far), and want to use MSFS to practice (cheaply). I do fine with
holding a heading, but I find it very difficult to maintain an
altitude. The real plane is much much easier. I also noticed that
even when the scenery flies by smoothly (when I'm in VMC!) the
instruments seem to update at a slower rate. Not quite a slide show,
but harder than it should be to control. I've tried fiddling with
the realism and sensitivity settings to no avail. I have noticed a
number of folks posting on this group use this simulator to maintain
proficiency, and I was just wondering how you have it set up.

FYI...I'm using the CH products USB Flight Sim yolk, and the CH USB
rudder pedals. The computer seems plenty fast enough with a 256MB
graphics card. Like I mentioned before, everything is very smooth
except for the instruments refreshing.

Thanks everyone!

Steve

On Feb 13, 7:43 pm, wrote:
Hi All,

I'm a longtime lurker here, but now I have a question I hope the group
can help me with. I am working toward my instrument rating (21 hours
so far), and want to use MSFS to practice (cheaply). I do fine with

Steve,
For my instrument training, I used the Elite program and followed
their Instrument Training Syllabus. I completed this self-taught
course along with actual simulated instrument practice with my husband
as safety pilot before we took the accelerated instrument training
with Bill Zaleski in Schenecdaty NY. Bill told us that we were ready
for the checkrides after 5 days. My logbook showed that I only had
the 'minimum' dual instrument training time so the $150 I spent on the
core Elite program + $50 for the IFR training manual were well spent.
I highly recommend you giving it a try. We 'played' with MS Flight
Simulator for years mainly for the scenery but did not find it
realistic enough for control inputs/feedbacks. I also purchased X-
plane but did not spent a lot of time with it to compare with other
programs. By the way, we even bought the Dream Fleet Cardinal addon
for MS FS to 'simulate' our flying experience with our Cardinal. The
look was there but not the feel of the control. I have not used MS FS
for the last 2 years but my recollection was that the control
adjustments were not fine enough (with both my old Thrustmaster
Joystick/CH pedal or my new CH yolk/pedal). With Elite, I was able
to adjust the sensitivities to get pretty close to real life
flying. If you are interested in Elite but don't want to spend alot
of money, you may want to check ebay. A friend of mine just bought
the program for $100. I plan to loan him my IFR training manual to
practice in preparation for his IFR checkride. You can also download
Elite trial program. It allows you 5 minutes of 'practice'.

Hai Longworth

On Feb 14, 3:09 pm, "Longworth" wrote:
On Feb 13, 7:43 pm, wrote:

Hi All,

I'm a longtime lurker here, but now I have a question I hope the group
can help me with. I am working toward my instrument rating (21 hours
so far), and want to use MSFS to practice (cheaply). I do fine with

Steve,
For my instrument training, I used the Elite program and followed
their Instrument Training Syllabus. I completed this self-taught
course along with actual simulated instrument practice with my husband
as safety pilot before we took the accelerated instrument training
with Bill Zaleski in Schenecdaty NY. Bill told us that we were ready
for the checkrides after 5 days. My logbook showed that I only had
the 'minimum' dual instrument training time so the $150 I spent on the
core Elite program + $50 for the IFR training manual were well spent.
I highly recommend you giving it a try. We 'played' with MS Flight
Simulator for years mainly for the scenery but did not find it
realistic enough for control inputs/feedbacks. I also purchased X-
plane but did not spent a lot of time with it to compare with other
programs. By the way, we even bought the Dream Fleet Cardinal addon
for MS FS to 'simulate' our flying experience with our Cardinal. The
look was there but not the feel of the control. I have not used MS FS
for the last 2 years but my recollection was that the control
adjustments were not fine enough (with both my old Thrustmaster
Joystick/CH pedal or my new CH yolk/pedal). With Elite, I was able
to adjust the sensitivities to get pretty close to real life
flying. If you are interested in Elite but don't want to spend alot
of money, you may want to check ebay. A friend of mine just bought
the program for $100. I plan to loan him my IFR training manual to
practice in preparation for his IFR checkride. You can also download
Elite trial program. It allows you 5 minutes of 'practice'.

Hai Longworth

I downloaded the Elite demo (it's up to $200 now for the core
package), and it looks very nice. I didn't see any deals on Ebay
today, so it looks like $250 total if you include the book.

It still could be well worth the money considering what it costs to
learn in a real airplane. If I can't make MSFS happy using the
suggestions provided in this thread, I may very well buy it.

If I just stick to procedures training, and don't worry about actually
trying to fly by hand, I'm probably there already.

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

Steve

Steve,
I forgot to mention that I had heard of the Elite program before
but did not want to buy it because of the cost (I already own several
versions of MS FS and X-plane). After visiting a flight school and
got a chance to checkout their Elite program (with the avionic stacks
and a CFII, you can log sim time - the program is the same as the
'home' version), I decided it was worth the money and got it. It is
extremely useful when use in conjunction with Elite excellent training
syllabus which start from the basic instrument settings, scanning
practice, oscar pattern etc. to approaches. Once finish with the
lesson, you can compare your tracks with the program tracks (including
the vertical dimension) to evaluate your progress. Elite also sells
several different ATC scenarios which are very helpful for IFR ATC
communication. We had our instrument ratings in May 05 and each had
logged close to 100hrs of instrument time (actual and simulated) since
then in our Cardinal. We still use the Elite program every so often
to practice a new approach at a new airport or just to sharpen our
skills when the weather is too crappy to fly (we had just shoveled a
foot of snow today!).

Hai Longworth

"Longworth" wrote

we had just shoveled a foot of snow today!).

Dang! I know lots of people will want to shoot me for this, but it has been
several years since we have seen a real snow. Would you mind sending some
of that snow our way? g
--
Jim in NC

On Feb 14, 7:32 pm, "Morgans" wrote:
"Longworth" wrote

we had just shoveled a foot of snow today!).

Dang! I know lots of people will want to shoot me for this, but it has been
several years since we have seen a real snow. Would you mind sending some
of that snow our way? g
--
Jim in NC

Jim,
I'd be glad to send you several cubic feet of snow. The snow is
free. You just pay the shiping cost ;-)
Hai Longworth

On Feb 14, 6:24 pm, "Longworth" wrote:
Steve,
I forgot to mention that I had heard of the Elite program before
but did not want to buy it because of the cost (I already own several
versions of MS FS and X-plane). After visiting a flight school and
got a chance to checkout their Elite program (with the avionic stacks
and a CFII, you can log sim time - the program is the same as the
'home' version), I decided it was worth the money and got it. It is
extremely useful when use in conjunction with Elite excellent training
syllabus which start from the basic instrument settings, scanning
practice, oscar pattern etc. to approaches. Once finish with the
lesson, you can compare your tracks with the program tracks (including
the vertical dimension) to evaluate your progress. Elite also sells
several different ATC scenarios which are very helpful for IFR ATC
communication. We had our instrument ratings in May 05 and each had
logged close to 100hrs of instrument time (actual and simulated) since
then in our Cardinal. We still use the Elite program every so often
to practice a new approach at a new airport or just to sharpen our
skills when the weather is too crappy to fly (we had just shoveled a
foot of snow today!).

Hai Longworth

That's a lot of instrument time! It must be very interesting to be
married to your safety pilot! Talk about CRM!

So did you hand fly while learning with the Elite program? If so, how
hard was it to master?

Steve,
Our Cardinal just have the basic instrument avionics (2 nav/com,
one with glideslope, marker beacon & ADF) . With two instrument rated
pilots, we have not felt the need to add an autopilot so hand flying
is a given. In long cross country trips, I sometimes find it is fun
to challenge myself to stay within 2 degrees of heading, 2 knots of
airspeed and 20 feet in altitude. I try to do the same while
practicing with Elite and it is very satisfying to see nice straight
tracks.

We fly between 200 to 300 hrs per year with less than half in VFR
mainly for sight seeing, photography etc.. BTW, I just bought Rick a
18-200mm VR Nikkor lens and it takes amazingly sharp aerial pictures
with his D50 as seen in this link
http://www.photocritique.net/g/s?109gbc

I think the disciplines that I get from instrument flying have made
me a better VFR pilot. Of course, it is a different kind of flying
and I don't glue my eyes to the gauges in VFR but I think I am more in
tune, more sensitive to the plane speed, pitch etc. Although flying
a sim does not give you the physical feedback, it does help with
forming good flying habits and maintaining discipline.
Good luck with your training. The IFR ticket is a great thing to
have.

Hai Longworth