PSA: Don't be rude on the radio

"Viperdoc" wrote in message
...
In a similar vein, I had an instructor slap my hands from the controls and
take over while we taxied up to a parking spot after a check out. We were
going at a slow speed, but he wanted to go to another tie down. There was
no emergency or impending event, he just wanted to go in a different
direction.

I explained to him why I thought this was not acceptable for him as an
instructor, and after hearing his weak response, I walked away and never
flew with him again.

He could have said "park over there" or even "I've got the plane", but as
a result, he lost a student and client.

I agree. If I were grading this instructor based on solid knowledge this
event occurred exactly as stated, I would find that the instructor should
never have allowed the incident to progress to the point where the airplane
was entering into a parking area he didn't want it to be in. His errors in
this case were several.
The progress of the airplane on the ground should have been better planned
by the instructor so that the first area of parking entered by the student
was the one desired by the instructor; so poor planning to begin with.
Next, physical contact in the corrective sense with a student is never
acceptable behavior for a flight instructor. If the CFI is teaching
properly, the student should not be in a position where this type of
correction is necessary. Not to say that sudden corrective action is never
necessary for an instructor, but if it is, it should be recognized early
enough by the instructor that the "correction" comes more as a "helping
hand" than as a sudden corrective movement.
The entire process of flight instruction is geared toward instilling
confidence in the student. A poor instructor using poor technique can easily
destroy in one second of sudden reaction at the end of a dual session what
has been achieved in the building of confidence with the student through a
last hour of dual.
Dudley Henriques

On Sat, 12 May 2007 11:13:55 -0500, "Viperdoc"
wrote in
:

I had an instructor slap my hands from the controls and
take over while we taxied up to a parking spot after a check out.

Did your instructor earn his certificate in the '30s. Instructors,
indeed pilots, of that era were expected to be treated as gods. At
least that has been my experience.

Was he a military instructor at one time?

No one is perfect, and I don't know why some people can't
accept the fact that I'm not...

You're right. No one IS perfect, but the job of the flight instructor is NOT
to accept this fact as easily as you obviously accept it from the tone of
your posts. You spend entirely too much time explaining to one and all that not being
perfect is acceptable in a pilot when in fact you should be spending every
minute of your time as a flight instructor doing all in your power to bring
perfection as close to being attainable as possible for your student.

What on earth makes you think I'm not doing this? I'm constantly
refining my skills. Posting and reading messages on this group is part
of that process. And it's a process I'm very familiar with. I got my
CFI with just a little over 250 hours, and over my tenure of
instructing, I've learned almost as much as I've learned as a student
myself. If you think it's a crime to be a CFI without having mastered
every single little minute facet of flying, then I'm not the one to
get mad at. Petition the FAA to get the CFI minimum requirements
raised. Write letters to schools telling them to refuse instructors
who don't have at least 1000 hours total time. I'm not the only one.

Everyone ganged up on me by saying how I should be fired because I
made a mistake. My "I'm only human" defense is a response to those who
say I'm unfit to instruct because I made a mistake. I don't deny it
was my fault; I do not deny I could have done more to avoid the
situation. You choose to conveniently ignore these posts and instead
CONTINUE maintain the opinion that I'm some kind of cowboy moron with
no regard for safety or my students education. Just admit it, there is
nothing can say or do that will change you mind about me as an
instructor. This exactly why I choose not to use my real name here.

My intent is not to excuse myself from having to learn anything from
the situation. Anyways, in my OP I only mentioned the incident to
illustrate how radio rudeness can effect others. I made no statement
of fault or dismissiveness. When others brought it up, I chimed in to
say, "yeah I probably could have done some more, but whats done is
done" All these your cries of "you are an unfit instructor because you
don't accept responsibility", "you could have used this as a way to
teach your student, BUT INSTEAD YOU SAID NOTHING TO YOUR STUDENT AND
JUST CAME HERE TO WHINE" and "you're just writing it all off as
someone else's fault" are completely made up by you. It boggles my
mind that someone could be so mindless...

You have proven to me over and over again that you're just not to
discuss aviation safety, instructional competence, radio politeness,
or pattern etiquette at all. You're just here to follow me around,
reading between the lines to try and come up with ways to "prove" I'm
a bad instructor. No matter what I post you're going to find something
wrong with it, whether it's true or not. You don't care about any of
these things. You're just here to toot your horn about how gifted an
instuctor you THINK are, and how anyone who disagrees, is CLEARLY a
reckless moron.

If you don't understand this one single all important concept, and are
unable to pass it on to a student pilot, in my opnion you are SERIOUSLY
lacking in the basic fundementals of proper flight instruction.
You should NEVER...and I repeat it again for you....EVER.....accept an error
made in the air by you, your student, or any other pilot as simply the fact
that "no one is perfect". This loigic has no place in
aviation.......ESPECIALLY professional aviation.......and MOST CERTAINLY not
in the CFI's deductive reasoning.
Dudley Henriques

I'll say it once mo Get over yourself.

I can see we're at the inevitable impasse here, so I'll just disengage from
you at this point if possible and let this go.
Perhaps we'll meet again over on the student group. I can't say I'll be
looking forward to it.
:-))
Have a nice day.
Dudley Henriques


"buttman" wrote in message
ps.com...
No one is perfect, and I don't know why some people can't
accept the fact that I'm not...

You're right. No one IS perfect, but the job of the flight instructor is
NOT
to accept this fact as easily as you obviously accept it from the tone of
your posts. You spend entirely too much time explaining to one and all
that not being
perfect is acceptable in a pilot when in fact you should be spending
every
minute of your time as a flight instructor doing all in your power to
bring
perfection as close to being attainable as possible for your student.

What on earth makes you think I'm not doing this? I'm constantly
refining my skills. Posting and reading messages on this group is part
of that process. And it's a process I'm very familiar with. I got my
CFI with just a little over 250 hours, and over my tenure of
instructing, I've learned almost as much as I've learned as a student
myself. If you think it's a crime to be a CFI without having mastered
every single little minute facet of flying, then I'm not the one to
get mad at. Petition the FAA to get the CFI minimum requirements
raised. Write letters to schools telling them to refuse instructors
who don't have at least 1000 hours total time. I'm not the only one.

Everyone ganged up on me by saying how I should be fired because I
made a mistake. My "I'm only human" defense is a response to those who
say I'm unfit to instruct because I made a mistake. I don't deny it
was my fault; I do not deny I could have done more to avoid the
situation. You choose to conveniently ignore these posts and instead
CONTINUE maintain the opinion that I'm some kind of cowboy moron with
no regard for safety or my students education. Just admit it, there is
nothing can say or do that will change you mind about me as an
instructor. This exactly why I choose not to use my real name here.

My intent is not to excuse myself from having to learn anything from
the situation. Anyways, in my OP I only mentioned the incident to
illustrate how radio rudeness can effect others. I made no statement
of fault or dismissiveness. When others brought it up, I chimed in to
say, "yeah I probably could have done some more, but whats done is
done" All these your cries of "you are an unfit instructor because you
don't accept responsibility", "you could have used this as a way to
teach your student, BUT INSTEAD YOU SAID NOTHING TO YOUR STUDENT AND
JUST CAME HERE TO WHINE" and "you're just writing it all off as
someone else's fault" are completely made up by you. It boggles my
mind that someone could be so mindless...

You have proven to me over and over again that you're just not to
discuss aviation safety, instructional competence, radio politeness,
or pattern etiquette at all. You're just here to follow me around,
reading between the lines to try and come up with ways to "prove" I'm
a bad instructor. No matter what I post you're going to find something
wrong with it, whether it's true or not. You don't care about any of
these things. You're just here to toot your horn about how gifted an
instuctor you THINK are, and how anyone who disagrees, is CLEARLY a
reckless moron.

If you don't understand this one single all important concept, and are
unable to pass it on to a student pilot, in my opnion you are SERIOUSLY
lacking in the basic fundementals of proper flight instruction.
You should NEVER...and I repeat it again for you....EVER.....accept an
error
made in the air by you, your student, or any other pilot as simply the
fact
that "no one is perfect". This loigic has no place in
aviation.......ESPECIALLY professional aviation.......and MOST CERTAINLY
not
in the CFI's deductive reasoning.
Dudley Henriques

I'll say it once mo Get over yourself.

I dont know if this is true but if it is you sure have a lot of problems.
"buttman" wrote in message
ups.com...
I had two recent situations where other pilots thought they'd be cool
by being condescending jackasses over the radio, which effected my
ability to teach my student.

The first time was when I was at a local uncontrolled field with one
of my students to introduce solf-field takeoffs and landings. When we
were turning downwind, I heard a Cirrus call "On the ILS at the outer
marker". I haven't flown any approaches for months, so I had no idea
how exactly far out he was. There were at least two other people in
the pattern, so instead of asking him to give a more accurate position
report, I just went on. Just before I got abeam the numbers on
downwind, the Cirrus guy called 3 miles out, so I told my student to
just do a short approach instead of extending which would have screwed
everyone else up.

I'm looking out the window like crazy to find this Cirrus guy but I
don't see him anywhere. Then suddenly I hear him say in a snappy voice
"Cessna on base at *** do you plan on cutting me off?" Startled, I
looked around but couldn't for the life of me see him. I responded
"uuhh, Cirrus on ILS I don't see you", then he snaps back
sarcastically, "oh 45 seconds before impact..."

I look right in front of me and there he is zooming by. I didn't
realize Cirrus's were so fast. He had to have been going more than 150
knots. I've turned short approaches in front of Seminoles when they
were on 3 mile ILS finals and it has never been a problem...

Anyways, the guy didn't have to be such a huge asshole. A busy pattern
is stressful enough, the ones coming in straight in can at least be a
little helpful, or at the VERY LEAST not act like a little baby when
things don't go their way.

Of the 50 or so times I've been on extended downwind when someone else
in on a 3-10 mile final, I'd say 10 times I went behind them and it
hasn't been a problem, 35 times I've gone behind them and it hasn't
been a problem, and 5 times I messed it up and either cut the person
off, or caused some other disruption. The other 4 times it was just a
simple "sorry about that", or some other professional way of handing
the situation, then forgetting it and moving on. It just makes it that
much harder to shake it off when the person decides to act that way.
Maybe I need to get thicker skin, but that situation had me all worked
up for the rest of the flight, and I admit it hindered my instructing
ability a little.

As a little side note, that same Cirrus guy came today to my home
airport which is even busier. There were like 7 planes already in the
pattern, 3 on 45 for the pattern, and then comes my Cirrus. I
recognized it was him because I remembered the tail number (N903CD).
As soon as he called, tower told him to slow to final approach speed
(which I just had to snicker to myself when I heard that ^_^). About a
minute later I, on an extended downwind, was told to turn base, which
would have put me right in front of the Cirrus. The tower cleared me
for a full stop only (which I've never been issued before, our
controllers are really good at accommodating a bunch of pattern
traffic), and told the Cirrus to break off and enter on the 45 for a
left traffic. After I landed, I switched to ground and just called it
a day. When I got back to the training room, another instructor joked
about how I was "kicked out of the pattern". He asked me of I heard
about the Cirrus who "got ****ed off and left". I said no but I can
only imagine what he actually said...

Anyways, back on topic. Also today, on another flight with another
student, we were coming back on the 45 for a downwind entry. Not too
long after he told me to report established on the downwind, someone's
mic got stuck and all I could hear on the radio was "EEEERRRRRRCHSHH
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE" punctuated with my call sign and the words "I'm not
communicating with him", then some more "AAAAAAEERRRRNNNGH". I saw a
plane on downwind which was about to converge with me, a helicopter
which looked like was doing WHO KNOWS WHAT, and someone else on upwind
about to turn crosswind. It looked like I was going to converge with
the plane on downwind, so I just decided to do a 360 where I was
(about a mile before entering downwind). As soon as a break in the
radio screeching appeared, I quickly told tower I'm doing a 360 to
avoid what by then I thought was a clueless student on a solo who
didn't know how to use the radio.

Well as soon as I told tower, a voice came on saying "..and that will
put you right in front of 64 Delta" (or whatever his tail number was).
Apparently there was a plane behind me, but I had no idea. Buy
anyways, he had to do a evasive maneuver also, and he was ticked off.
He came back on and told tower he had to do an evasive to avoid "the
kamikaze" as he called me.

Well guess what, bub? I had to do an evasive maneuver too. Thats an
everyday thing 'round these parts. There are two busy flight schools,
as well as a lot of military activity (a C-130 comes here a few times
a week to do touch and goes, gives us a lot of wake turbulence
avoidance practice ^_^). I had to fly a downwind parallel to him and
then follow him in. I couldn't let my student do the flying because it
was an atypical situation. AND I had to do all this while I'm getting
name-called by some tard out of no-where. It just makes things that
much more frustrating.


So please, don't be a jackass show off on the radio. I actually saw
the second guy climb out his plane after we landed. I saw he had what
looked like his wife in there with him. I imagine he was acting like
that to show off in front of his wife *rolleyes*.

Anyways, just please be mindful of others, especially considering the
environment your in (busy airspace; emergency in the area; whatever it
may be). Just be aware that those snappy one liners may make you look
cool, but they just make others frustrated and more life more
difficult.

I know this post is getting long, but theres one more instance I want
to bring up. When I was getting my multi rating a few months ago, we
went to a towered airport a few miles away to do a few ILS/VOR
approaches. While we were doing the procedure turns and stuff, we
could hear this clueless student pilot entering on a solo cross
country. This guy was a total wreck. First he was 10 miles south; then
he was 5 miles north, then he was over such and such lake which is 15
miles northwest. The controllers at this particular airport aren't
known as the friendliest around, so as you can imagine, the poor guy
wasn't having a good time.

I wasn't really paying attention to what all was being said because I
was focusing on my approaches, but after doing about 3 full ILS/VOR
approaches (procedure turn and all) he still was confused as to where
he was and hadn't landed yet (but I believe was still in the pattern).
We were just doing missed approaches, breaking off well before the
airport area to stay out of the way.

I don't really blame the controller because he was frustrated too, but
it was what my instructor said which I think was worst of all. During
our last approach, he said something to the effect of "Do you want us
to do another low approach so you can handle this guy, or can we do a
touch and go the this next one?"

I just cringed when I heard that. I just can imagine being in his
shoes. The last thing I want to know is that I'm messing not only the
controller's thing, but other pilots as well. We didn't NEED to do a
touch and go, we could have just did our share by helping out with the
low approaches, then moved on. Indirectly telling the poor student how
incompetent he is (which he HAS to already know by then) just helps no
one out. It just makes things worse.

I don't think what my instructor said

Just about as many problems as a person who quotes several hundred lines of
text for a one line answer.

Jim



"Aluckyguess" wrote in message
...


I dont know if this is true but if it is you sure have a lot of problems.

buttman wrote:
I had two recent situations where other pilots thought they'd be cool
by being condescending jackasses over the radio, which effected my
ability to teach my student.

The first time was when I was at a local uncontrolled field with one
of my students to introduce solf-field takeoffs and landings. When we
were turning downwind, I heard a Cirrus call "On the ILS at the outer
marker". I haven't flown any approaches for months, so I had no idea
how exactly far out he was. There were at least two other people in
the pattern, so instead of asking him to give a more accurate position
report, I just went on. Just before I got abeam the numbers on
downwind, the Cirrus guy called 3 miles out, so I told my student to
just do a short approach instead of extending which would have screwed
everyone else up.

I'm looking out the window like crazy to find this Cirrus guy but I
don't see him anywhere. Then suddenly I hear him say in a snappy voice
"Cessna on base at *** do you plan on cutting me off?" Startled, I
looked around but couldn't for the life of me see him. I responded
"uuhh, Cirrus on ILS I don't see you", then he snaps back
sarcastically, "oh 45 seconds before impact..."

I look right in front of me and there he is zooming by. I didn't
realize Cirrus's were so fast. He had to have been going more than 150
knots. I've turned short approaches in front of Seminoles when they
were on 3 mile ILS finals and it has never been a problem...

Anyways, the guy didn't have to be such a huge asshole. A busy pattern
is stressful enough, the ones coming in straight in can at least be a
little helpful, or at the VERY LEAST not act like a little baby when
things don't go their way.

Of the 50 or so times I've been on extended downwind when someone else
in on a 3-10 mile final, I'd say 10 times I went behind them and it
hasn't been a problem, 35 times I've gone behind them and it hasn't
been a problem, and 5 times I messed it up and either cut the person
off, or caused some other disruption. The other 4 times it was just a
simple "sorry about that", or some other professional way of handing
the situation, then forgetting it and moving on. It just makes it that
much harder to shake it off when the person decides to act that way.
Maybe I need to get thicker skin, but that situation had me all worked
up for the rest of the flight, and I admit it hindered my instructing
ability a little.

As a little side note, that same Cirrus guy came today to my home
airport which is even busier. There were like 7 planes already in the
pattern, 3 on 45 for the pattern, and then comes my Cirrus. I
recognized it was him because I remembered the tail number (N903CD).
As soon as he called, tower told him to slow to final approach speed
(which I just had to snicker to myself when I heard that ^_^). About a
minute later I, on an extended downwind, was told to turn base, which
would have put me right in front of the Cirrus. The tower cleared me
for a full stop only (which I've never been issued before, our
controllers are really good at accommodating a bunch of pattern
traffic), and told the Cirrus to break off and enter on the 45 for a
left traffic. After I landed, I switched to ground and just called it
a day. When I got back to the training room, another instructor joked
about how I was "kicked out of the pattern". He asked me of I heard
about the Cirrus who "got ****ed off and left". I said no but I can
only imagine what he actually said...

Anyways, back on topic. Also today, on another flight with another
student, we were coming back on the 45 for a downwind entry. Not too
long after he told me to report established on the downwind, someone's
mic got stuck and all I could hear on the radio was "EEEERRRRRRCHSHH
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE" punctuated with my call sign and the words "I'm not
communicating with him", then some more "AAAAAAEERRRRNNNGH". I saw a
plane on downwind which was about to converge with me, a helicopter
which looked like was doing WHO KNOWS WHAT, and someone else on upwind
about to turn crosswind. It looked like I was going to converge with
the plane on downwind, so I just decided to do a 360 where I was
(about a mile before entering downwind). As soon as a break in the
radio screeching appeared, I quickly told tower I'm doing a 360 to
avoid what by then I thought was a clueless student on a solo who
didn't know how to use the radio.

Well as soon as I told tower, a voice came on saying "..and that will
put you right in front of 64 Delta" (or whatever his tail number was).
Apparently there was a plane behind me, but I had no idea. Buy
anyways, he had to do a evasive maneuver also, and he was ticked off.
He came back on and told tower he had to do an evasive to avoid "the
kamikaze" as he called me.

Well guess what, bub? I had to do an evasive maneuver too. Thats an
everyday thing 'round these parts. There are two busy flight schools,
as well as a lot of military activity (a C-130 comes here a few times
a week to do touch and goes, gives us a lot of wake turbulence
avoidance practice ^_^). I had to fly a downwind parallel to him and
then follow him in. I couldn't let my student do the flying because it
was an atypical situation. AND I had to do all this while I'm getting
name-called by some tard out of no-where. It just makes things that
much more frustrating.


So please, don't be a jackass show off on the radio. I actually saw
the second guy climb out his plane after we landed. I saw he had what
looked like his wife in there with him. I imagine he was acting like
that to show off in front of his wife *rolleyes*.

Anyways, just please be mindful of others, especially considering the
environment your in (busy airspace; emergency in the area; whatever it
may be). Just be aware that those snappy one liners may make you look
cool, but they just make others frustrated and more life more
difficult.

I know this post is getting long, but theres one more instance I want
to bring up. When I was getting my multi rating a few months ago, we
went to a towered airport a few miles away to do a few ILS/VOR
approaches. While we were doing the procedure turns and stuff, we
could hear this clueless student pilot entering on a solo cross
country. This guy was a total wreck. First he was 10 miles south; then
he was 5 miles north, then he was over such and such lake which is 15
miles northwest. The controllers at this particular airport aren't
known as the friendliest around, so as you can imagine, the poor guy
wasn't having a good time.

I wasn't really paying attention to what all was being said because I
was focusing on my approaches, but after doing about 3 full ILS/VOR
approaches (procedure turn and all) he still was confused as to where
he was and hadn't landed yet (but I believe was still in the pattern).
We were just doing missed approaches, breaking off well before the
airport area to stay out of the way.

I don't really blame the controller because he was frustrated too, but
it was what my instructor said which I think was worst of all. During
our last approach, he said something to the effect of "Do you want us
to do another low approach so you can handle this guy, or can we do a
touch and go the this next one?"

I just cringed when I heard that. I just can imagine being in his
shoes. The last thing I want to know is that I'm messing not only the
controller's thing, but other pilots as well. We didn't NEED to do a
touch and go, we could have just did our share by helping out with the
low approaches, then moved on. Indirectly telling the poor student how
incompetent he is (which he HAS to already know by then) just helps no
one out. It just makes things worse.

I don't think what my instructor said


Well, so what? Big deal and quit whining. When I learned to fly my Dad's
Aeronca Champ it didn't have a radio - nor did half the planes at the
airport - and we had to deal with Larson AFB also.

No one got all hot and bothered if they were cut off, or had to go
around or whatever, they just did so without all that cry-baby crap - we
all seemed to get along.

Your story is typical of todays pilot and pilot instructor.

Much ado about nothing.

--
"Religion began when the first scoundrel met the first fool."
—- Voltaire

On May 11, 4:48 pm, Phil wrote:
buttman wrote:
I had two recent situations where other pilots thought they'd be cool
by being condescending jackasses over the radio, which effected my
ability to teach my student.

Well, so what? Big deal and quit whining. When I learned to fly my Dad's
Aeronca Champ it didn't have a radio - nor did half the planes at the
airport - and we had to deal with Larson AFB also.

No one got all hot and bothered if they were cut off, or had to go
around or whatever, they just did so without all that cry-baby crap - we
all seemed to get along.

You realize I am in 100% agreement with you? My OP is exactly what you
wrote, but with more words and without the "in my day" part.

Your story is typical of todays pilot and pilot instructor.

Much ado about nothing.

So let me get this straight:

1. I pull out in front of a Cirrus
2. I admit I was wrong and could have done more to avoid this
situation.
3. Cirrus guy gets all snotty with me over the radio as I'm trying to
see and avoid all other pattern traffic as well as teach to my
student.
4. Instead of snapping back I just go on my merry way and try best I
can to carry on with the instruction.
5. A similar situation happens a few days later with similar results.
Me not snapping back, and making the situation more stressful.
6. I realize things like this happen somewhat often so I decide to
make a post on usenet to warn others of what being snotty on the radio
can cause. Ask any controller their opinion on snotty pilots on a freq
with 5 planes in the pattern...
7. Said post to bring this issue to everyone's attention makes me a
cry baby who needs to shut up

buttman wrote in news:1178940211.472891.25410
@e51g2000hsg.googlegroups.com:

On May 11, 4:48 pm, Phil wrote:
buttman wrote:
I had two recent situations where other pilots thought they'd be
cool
by being condescending jackasses over the radio, which effected my
ability to teach my student.

Well, so what? Big deal and quit whining. When I learned to fly my
Dad's
Aeronca Champ it didn't have a radio - nor did half the planes at the
airport - and we had to deal with Larson AFB also.

No one got all hot and bothered if they were cut off, or had to go
around or whatever, they just did so without all that cry-baby crap -
we
all seemed to get along.

You realize I am in 100% agreement with you? My OP is exactly what you
wrote, but with more words and without the "in my day" part.

Your story is typical of todays pilot and pilot instructor.

Much ado about nothing.

So let me get this straight:

1. I pull out in front of a Cirrus
2. I admit I was wrong and could have done more to avoid this
situation.
3. Cirrus guy gets all snotty with me over the radio as I'm trying to
see and avoid all other pattern traffic as well as teach to my
student.
4. Instead of snapping back I just go on my merry way and try best I
can to carry on with the instruction.
5. A similar situation happens a few days later with similar results.
Me not snapping back, and making the situation more stressful.
6. I realize things like this happen somewhat often so I decide to
make a post on usenet to warn others of what being snotty on the radio
can cause. Ask any controller their opinion on snotty pilots on a freq
with 5 planes in the pattern...
7. Said post to bring this issue to everyone's attention makes me a
cry baby who needs to shut up


Actualy the cry baby thing would be the least of my worries..


Bertie

buttman wrote in news:1178778914.218335.90810
@e51g2000hsg.googlegroups.com:

I had two recent situations where other pilots thought they'd be cool
by being condescending jackasses over the radio, which effected my
ability to teach my student.

The first time was when I was at a local uncontrolled field with one
of my students to introduce solf-field takeoffs and landings. When we
were turning downwind, I heard a Cirrus call "On the ILS at the outer
marker". I haven't flown any approaches for months, so I had no idea
how exactly far out he was. There were at least two other people in
the pattern, so instead of asking him to give a more accurate position
report, I just went on. Just before I got abeam the numbers on
downwind, the Cirrus guy called 3 miles out, so I told my student to
just do a short approach instead of extending which would have screwed
everyone else up.

I'm looking out the window like crazy to find this Cirrus guy but I
don't see him anywhere. Then suddenly I hear him say in a snappy voice
"Cessna on base at *** do you plan on cutting me off?" Startled, I
looked around but couldn't for the life of me see him. I responded
"uuhh, Cirrus on ILS I don't see you", then he snaps back
sarcastically, "oh 45 seconds before impact..."

I look right in front of me and there he is zooming by. I didn't
realize Cirrus's were so fast. He had to have been going more than 150
knots. I've turned short approaches in front of Seminoles when they
were on 3 mile ILS finals and it has never been a problem...

Anyways, the guy didn't have to be such a huge asshole. A busy pattern
is stressful enough, the ones coming in straight in can at least be a
little helpful, or at the VERY LEAST not act like a little baby when
things don't go their way.

Of the 50 or so times I've been on extended downwind when someone else
in on a 3-10 mile final, I'd say 10 times I went behind them and it
hasn't been a problem, 35 times I've gone behind them and it hasn't
been a problem, and 5 times I messed it up and either cut the person
off, or caused some other disruption. The other 4 times it was just a
simple "sorry about that", or some other professional way of handing
the situation, then forgetting it and moving on. It just makes it that
much harder to shake it off when the person decides to act that way.
Maybe I need to get thicker skin, but that situation had me all worked
up for the rest of the flight, and I admit it hindered my instructing
ability a little.

As a little side note, that same Cirrus guy came today to my home
airport which is even busier. There were like 7 planes already in the
pattern, 3 on 45 for the pattern, and then comes my Cirrus. I
recognized it was him because I remembered the tail number (N903CD).
As soon as he called, tower told him to slow to final approach speed
(which I just had to snicker to myself when I heard that ^_^). About a
minute later I, on an extended downwind, was told to turn base, which
would have put me right in front of the Cirrus. The tower cleared me
for a full stop only (which I've never been issued before, our
controllers are really good at accommodating a bunch of pattern
traffic), and told the Cirrus to break off and enter on the 45 for a
left traffic. After I landed, I switched to ground and just called it
a day. When I got back to the training room, another instructor joked
about how I was "kicked out of the pattern". He asked me of I heard
about the Cirrus who "got ****ed off and left". I said no but I can
only imagine what he actually said...

Anyways, back on topic. Also today, on another flight with another
student, we were coming back on the 45 for a downwind entry. Not too
long after he told me to report established on the downwind, someone's
mic got stuck and all I could hear on the radio was "EEEERRRRRRCHSHH
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE" punctuated with my call sign and the words "I'm not
communicating with him", then some more "AAAAAAEERRRRNNNGH". I saw a
plane on downwind which was about to converge with me, a helicopter
which looked like was doing WHO KNOWS WHAT, and someone else on upwind
about to turn crosswind. It looked like I was going to converge with
the plane on downwind, so I just decided to do a 360 where I was
(about a mile before entering downwind). As soon as a break in the
radio screeching appeared, I quickly told tower I'm doing a 360 to
avoid what by then I thought was a clueless student on a solo who
didn't know how to use the radio.

Well as soon as I told tower, a voice came on saying "..and that will
put you right in front of 64 Delta" (or whatever his tail number was).
Apparently there was a plane behind me, but I had no idea. Buy
anyways, he had to do a evasive maneuver also, and he was ticked off.
He came back on and told tower he had to do an evasive to avoid "the
kamikaze" as he called me.

Well guess what, bub? I had to do an evasive maneuver too. Thats an
everyday thing 'round these parts. There are two busy flight schools,
as well as a lot of military activity (a C-130 comes here a few times
a week to do touch and goes, gives us a lot of wake turbulence
avoidance practice ^_^). I had to fly a downwind parallel to him and
then follow him in. I couldn't let my student do the flying because it
was an atypical situation. AND I had to do all this while I'm getting
name-called by some tard out of no-where. It just makes things that
much more frustrating.


So please, don't be a jackass show off on the radio. I actually saw
the second guy climb out his plane after we landed. I saw he had what
looked like his wife in there with him. I imagine he was acting like
that to show off in front of his wife *rolleyes*.

Anyways, just please be mindful of others, especially considering the
environment your in (busy airspace; emergency in the area; whatever it
may be). Just be aware that those snappy one liners may make you look
cool, but they just make others frustrated and more life more
difficult.

I know this post is getting long, but theres one more instance I want
to bring up. When I was getting my multi rating a few months ago, we
went to a towered airport a few miles away to do a few ILS/VOR
approaches. While we were doing the procedure turns and stuff, we
could hear this clueless student pilot entering on a solo cross
country. This guy was a total wreck. First he was 10 miles south; then
he was 5 miles north, then he was over such and such lake which is 15
miles northwest. The controllers at this particular airport aren't
known as the friendliest around, so as you can imagine, the poor guy
wasn't having a good time.

I wasn't really paying attention to what all was being said because I
was focusing on my approaches, but after doing about 3 full ILS/VOR
approaches (procedure turn and all) he still was confused as to where
he was and hadn't landed yet (but I believe was still in the pattern).
We were just doing missed approaches, breaking off well before the
airport area to stay out of the way.


You are an instructor? I'd love to point out each and every one of the
idiotic things you did and said here, but I haven't got enough time.



Jesus wept.

Bertie