A380 captain's pay

B A R R Y writes:

I was using sea captains as a comparison, as they get additional
ratings and pay based on displacement tonnage. For instance, a super
tanker captain is usually better paid than a 100' whale watch boat
captain, even though the tanker will have less people aboard.

The tanker is worth more money, and money is more important than people.

"Bob Noel" wrote:

In my business (automatic temperature control systems), technicians make
more
than the mechanical engineers who design the HVAC systems we control.

ME's might make more if management of companies with large buildings were
willing to pay the price for an HVAC system that could actually correctly
keep
the temperature comfortable, especially during seasonal changes. Instead
they just shrug and go back to their nice offices.

When a project is in the design phase and costs are being considered, owners
are all for cutting "frills" in the HVAC system design.

After the building is occupied and people are complaining about comfort
problems, the poor engineer and the control guy get dragged into a
come-to-Jesus meeting and asked why their systems don't work.

....and don't even get me started about owners skimping on maintenance.

--
Dan

"Almost all the matter that came out of the Big Bang was two specific sorts;
hydrogen, and stupidity."

-Robert Carnegie in talk.origins

wrote in message oups.com...
On May 26, 5:35 am, (Paul Tomblin) wrote:
In a previous article, "Robert M. Gary" said:

The cost is actually a very small factor in overseas hiring in the
software industry. Our two main motivating factors are 1) we want a
large pool to hire from, in the U.S. right now its very much an
employees market, its hard for employeers to find "good" (not the high
school kids that were hired during the internet bubble, real engineers
with real engineering degrees) programmers to pick from and 2) Since a

Bull****. At least 50 percent of the programmers I know are not working
as programmers because their employers fired them and replaced them with
off-shore workers. There are plenty of very good programmers here in the
US who can't get work because employers don't want to pay a living wage.

I told my kids not to bother getting engineering degrees because in a few
years there won't be a single job left in the US.

--
Paul Tomblin http://blog.xcski.com/
"Harry very carefully read the manual - four times - because Snape would
cut off his breathing privs if he asked him a question that the manual
could answer..." -- Harry Potter and the Book Of The BOFH

Hi Paul,

Yes, I told my nephew not to become a Mechanical Engineer for the same
reason. He is going into business and Lanscape Architecture instead.
They can't offshore that.

One of the reasons that engineers are disappearing from the
marketplace is because a lot of them are getting sick of the lack of
job stability, declining pay, and generally poor workplace
environments that have come into being in recent years and have left
the profession for other vocations. I know of several that did that
here in Idaho.

Dean


Good engineers will hold good jobs. Sometimes knowledge is considered a commodity, so those that conform go offshore. It
is creativity that makes one valuable. If the creativity manufacturing base is offloaded, there will be no need for
landscape architecture because no-one will be able to buy the garden...

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
Jim Logajan writes:

If you can restrict yourself to projects suitable for this philosophy,
great.
The problem is that there are still a lot of projects that have to be done
and
do not conform to this philosophy.


Not for people billing by the hour. A lot of consulting firms love such
clients.

What would an unemployed moron like you know about it.

On Fri, 25 May 2007 15:22:00 GMT, John Theune
wrote:

Kingfish wrote:
Interesting article here on the arbitration case between Singapore
Airlines and its pilots. The court ruled SIA must pay A380 captains
more than 747 captains. Duh? If it's bigger, heavier and has more
seats that should be a no-brainer IMHO, unless of course the airline
is trying to contain labor costs. I was amazed to see their monthly
base pay of $10k for 747 captains. $120k/yr to fly a 747? Even
allowing for per diem and other stuff, SWA's 737 captains make a lot
more than that...


http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...paid-more.html

Pay is always based on the location of the job. Software engineers in
the US make 75K but in Bangalore they make 5K. Why would it be
They took a pay cut? My late cousin was making considerably more than
that 10 years ago. That too depended on what you were doing and where.
I understood that a lot of pilots flying the "big iron" have taken
some serious pay cuts in the past few years.

different for pilots?

Mxsmanic wrote in
news
writes:

I don't work for HP anymore, I work for a small privately owned
company... HP is continuing to cut people here locally as they send
the R&D to Shanghai and Singapore. Not much future at HP in the USA.

Not much future for HP, actually.


Oh I'll sell my shares!


Bwawhahhwhahwhahhwhahwhahwhahhwhahwhha!

bertie

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Sylvain writes:

if you define responsibility by, say, the number of
casualties you might get per goofs, then why are physicians
(who can kill/maim only one person at a time) paid more than
engineers (who can goof really big, and repeatedly, unlike
airline pilots); we should be on the very top of the pay
scale! :-)

Physicians are also less heavily regulated than airline pilots and
some
engineers, which is also rather curious.

You';re an idiot.


The answer to that one is obvious, but not to the autistic, obviously.


Bertie

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Jim Logajan writes:

Very probable - but it may also be the nature of the kinds of
projects I've been doing and my client's underlying motivation.

If you can restrict yourself to projects suitable for this philosophy,
great. The problem is that there are still a lot of projects that have
to be done and do not conform to this philosophy.

Generally a client who constantly changes the target will quickly
become a non-client in short order.

Not for people billing by the hour. A lot of consulting firms love
such clients.

Good grief, you're not smart enough to use cutlery are you?

bertie

On May 27, 7:45 am, "Blueskies" wrote:
wrote in ooglegroups.com...
On May 26, 5:35 am, (Paul Tomblin) wrote:
In a previous article, "Robert M. Gary" said:

The cost is actually a very small factor in overseas hiring in the
software industry. Our two main motivating factors are 1) we want a
large pool to hire from, in the U.S. right now its very much an
employees market, its hard for employeers to find "good" (not the high
school kids that were hired during the internet bubble, real engineers
with real engineering degrees) programmers to pick from and 2) Since a

Bull****. At least 50 percent of the programmers I know are not working
as programmers because their employers fired them and replaced them with
off-shore workers. There are plenty of very good programmers here in the
US who can't get work because employers don't want to pay a living wage.

I told my kids not to bother getting engineering degrees because in a few
years there won't be a single job left in the US.

--
Paul Tomblin http://blog.xcski.com/
"Harry very carefully read the manual - four times - because Snape would
cut off his breathing privs if he asked him a question that the manual
could answer..." -- Harry Potter and the Book Of The BOFH

Hi Paul,

Yes, I told my nephew not to become a Mechanical Engineer for the same
reason. He is going into business and Lanscape Architecture instead.
They can't offshore that.

One of the reasons that engineers are disappearing from the
marketplace is because a lot of them are getting sick of the lack of
job stability, declining pay, and generally poor workplace
environments that have come into being in recent years and have left
the profession for other vocations. I know of several that did that
here in Idaho.

Dean

Good engineers will hold good jobs. Sometimes knowledge is considered a commodity, so those that conform go offshore. It
is creativity that makes one valuable. If the creativity manufacturing base is offloaded, there will be no need for
landscape architecture because no-one will be able to buy the garden...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'm a good engineer, but I could see the writing on the wall at HP so
I took the package and left. I had a new job 1 week after my last day
at HP. It still sucks having to change jobs every 5 years on
average. My vacation balance starts off at 0 every time, and that is
just one of the downsides...

On May 25, 11:23 pm, wrote:
On May 25, 8:50 pm, "Robert M. Gary" wrote:





On May 25, 4:08 pm, wrote:

On May 25, 4:34 pm, "Robert M. Gary" wrote:

On May 25, 3:17 pm, (Paul Tomblin) wrote:

In a previous article, Mxsmanic said:

Robert M. Gary writes:
Where can I get a software engineer in the US for 75K?? I've been
trying to grow my U.S. team for quiet some time but even six figure
saleries don't generate a lot of response.

Are these telecommuting positions?

The problem with "telecommuting positions" is that if they want
telecommuters, they want Indian, Chinese, or Eastern European
telecommuters, or people willing to work for those types of wages.

The cost is actually a very small factor in overseas hiring in the
software industry. Our two main motivating factors are 1) we want a
large pool to hire from, in the U.S. right now its very much an
employees market, its hard for employeers to find "good" (not the high
school kids that were hired during the internet bubble, real engineers
with real engineering degrees) programmers to pick from and 2) Since a
large amount of sales come from overseas its hard to explain to a
foreign country or company why they should buy your product if you
don't spend any money in their country (i.e. "why should I buy your
product if you won't hire anyone from my country")? Its the same
reason Boeing subs out the 777 all over the world, those country are
customers too.
BTW: The cost savings in India for programmers is all but totally
gone. China will always have a small roll because of the extream
language difference. Eastern Europe is probably going to see a large
increase in technology hiring in the near term.

-Robert, BS Computer Science, MBA, holder of 3 U.S. patents for
software

Robert,

Let me guess... you are in a high-cost large city job market, right?

Probably middle tier. We're near Sacramento.

I am an Electrical Engineer with 20 years of design experience in both
hardware and software, and in Idaho I make $80K a year,

Well, if you account for all the state taxes here (income, high sales,
$5000/yr average home property tax, sales/use tax on airplanes, etc)
you probably are making a California equiv of $100K.

Plus, HP has been
laying off so many people in Boise that there are lots of folks in the
market for an engineering position.

Yea, HP is now where you want to be, especially if you are in a one
employeer town. However, the best money has always been at smaller,
riskier companies. You always take a salery cut to work at a more
"stable" company like IBM, HP, etc.

-robert- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Robert,

I don't work for HP anymore, I work for a small privately owned
company... HP is continuing to cut people here locally as they send
the R&D to Shanghai and Singapore. Not much future at HP in the USA.

Dean- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I've been in this industry for about 15 years so I've probaby been
through 20 rounds of layoffs. Everytime I see people standing in the
hall complaining that their jobs are going to India, etc. Its just
sad. These people joined the technology industry when things were
going really, really well. Apparently they thought the world is
static, and that nothing ever changes. So they sat at their desks and
thought they'd be there until retirement. I don't have a lot of
sympathy for those types. There are *LOTS* and *LOTS* of opportunities
in the U.S. but you have to see the writing on the wall and change as
the industry changes. You have to keep updating your skills. I went
and got a company paid MBA and several patents knowing that the future
was in strategic management, not code monkeying.