Head orientation in turns--how is it taught for aviation?

On Jun 10, 1:33 pm, Mxsmanic wrote:

I can't find 61-104; do you have a pointer to it?

Can't successfully Google anymore? Suicide watch for you.

F--

writes:

Can't successfully Google anymore? Suicide watch for you.

I looked in the FAA archive.

Mxsmanic wrote in
news
writes:

Can't successfully Google anymore? Suicide watch for you.

I looked in the FAA archive.


Oh goodie.

Bertie

On 10 Jun, 18:41, wrote:
On Jun 10, 1:33 pm, Mxsmanic wrote:



I can't find 61-104; do you have a pointer to it?

Can't successfully Google anymore? Suicide watch for you.

I can't find it either.

Regarding head movements, I am pretty sure that
I recall being told that military fighter pilots were
taught that turning their head and tilting it down
at the same time could result in dissorientation
- as in say moving from looking straight ahead to
looking towards a hip.

In the small amount of flying that I did
I think that it was strictly expected that
the head should be kept pretty much still
with respect to the airframe unless perhaps
looking at something inside the cockpit. I
am pretty certain that no side to side tilting
was allowed on pain of a rap on the back of
the head: -)

I would certainly fancy sticking to that
since it avoids the problem of what to
do when you run out of neck travel.
In some aircraft there will not be
room to move the head much.

Will watch the next Red Bull races
to see what happens there. My betting is that
the head stays with the airframe.

I have fairly recently started motorcycling
and I was not taught anything about head
movement however I have found that it
seems to help my visual perception
(depth perception?) if I keep my eyes
horizontal (wrt the horizon:-). My natural
action is to lean my head with the bike.

writes:

I have fairly recently started motorcycling
and I was not taught anything about head
movement however I have found that it
seems to help my visual perception
(depth perception?) if I keep my eyes
horizontal (wrt the horizon:-). My natural
action is to lean my head with the bike.

In the training I received, it was made very clear that your head must remain
level with the horizon. The reason? Because you'll suffer spatial
disorientation if you move your head. The same should apply in an aircraft.

This, incidentally, is also a good way to distinguish between a full-motion
simulator and a real aircraft. If you keep your head in the same orientation
in the sim, you'll notice that you hardly feel any movement at all, whereas in
a real aircraft the movement is just as obvious even with your head held still
(although its orientation may change).

Mxsmanic wrote in
news
writes:

FAA permits teaching of either method. See AC 61-104.

I can't find 61-104; do you have a pointer to it?


I do, send me $35 and I'll send it to you,.

Bertie

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

When you make a coordinated turn in an aircraft, are you taught to let
your head tilt with the bank angle of the aircraft, or are you taught
to keep your head normal to the horizon?



In your case they'd tell you to take it out of your ass first.



Not that thye could tel you anything at all.


Terrorist wannabe boi.



Bertie

Like many A/C, my single tin-can has this aerodynamic thing where if
you really lean into the bank, it prevents her from wanting to return
to wings level. Normally not a problem, but I now suffer from
disorientosis. It stems from 26 yrs on MSFS since v 1.0 in 1983, where
like even in versions today, the airplane will stay at any bank angle
once set. See, I coincidentally make only $647/month like O/P, and
can't afford what they get for joysticks even off eBay. I use keypad
control. Reality in simming is for wusses; just do what the sim
programmer expects.

It got really bad when I was earning my IFR ticket, because I had to
use rudder under the hood, to let the thing slew back toward that
displaced,vertical needle thingy on an ILS. On my Baron in MSFS over
many years, it became ingrained to just use asymmetric thrust to do
that, due to high rudder forces. To maintain GS, I also just used
pitch in my Baron, cause you can't twiddle thrust and do too many
things at once, like also constantly reminding self to keep body erect
despite the efficacy of leaning. It's also just so unintuitive to bank
to fly a straight course, especially when you can't feel a bank, and
they persistently teach you to ignore senses anyway, and you're like
in solid cloud when it's 200-1/2 for real.

Disorientosis really set in when I got glider time, and that bird had
this silly piece of yarn taped to the windscreen. You step on the
ball, but opposite the yarn. But nobody even an ATP can remember that
in solid cloud near ILS minimums.

I did overshoot a rwy once in my actual tin can post an ILS in actual
to mins, using high power to make rudder more effective and pitch for
GS, and thence FAA wanted this 809 ride, whatever. The FAA guy was so
impressed with my technique, crossed needles down to the MM, he asked
me if I had disorientosis. Naw, I lied, but do you fly MSFS? He said
every day; real neat sim. Actual flyin' just don't get no better than
that.

F--

So here we go again- he asks an apparently innocent question, and then
argues with all of the helpful responses from experienced and knowledgeable
pilots. It's getting boring, although MX bashing is developing into an art
form.

The fact is- flying largely relies on visual cues, not vestibular (applies
to VMC flying). Of course, all of the aviation physiologists at flight
surgeon school could be as irrational as MX, but not likely.

After flying many hours of acro, I've never wondered where my head was! It's
all about coming out on axis, the right attitude and altitude- and you put
your head and vision where it's needed to see that the other stuff is right,
nothing more.

IFR flying on the other hand, particularly at night, is another story. Then,
of course, the focus is on the instruments, and needing to ignore any other
cues.

My most memorable example of this was in the centrifuge at FS school. We
started from 1g sitting still, to around 1.5g, but with the bucket now at 90
degrees. It was a strong sensation of getting pitched forward and inward. At
least I was able to do the 9g ride without a GLOC, and this is what it's all
about.

Who cares where one looks when all he's doing is sitting in a chair, and his
only option is to look forward at the screen? It's kind of sad and pathetic,
although annoying as well.

"Viperdoc" wrote in
. net:

So here we go again- he asks an apparently innocent question, and then
argues with all of the helpful responses from experienced and
knowledgeable pilots. It's getting boring, although MX bashing is
developing into an art form.

The fact is- flying largely relies on visual cues, not vestibular
(applies to VMC flying). Of course, all of the aviation physiologists
at flight surgeon school could be as irrational as MX, but not likely.

No,it isn't likely.

Seen a cross bred Cairn terrior that was as irrational as him, once
though. Crazy bitch.


Berti e