AoA keep it going!

Ian wrote:
On 20 Dec, 18:18, "Wayne Paul" wrote:
I think this entire thread can be summed up as follows:

If you have had the opportunity to fly with an AOA for an extended period of
time ... you would like to have one in your sailplane.

Doesn't follow. Just because one person who has flown with an AoA
indicator would like one in his glider does not mean that every who
has would.

Ian
I haven't (had the opportunity to fly w. an AoA indicator)...but I would
(like one in my [flapped] sailplane).

That noted, I do tend to agree w. Wayne there's an awful lot of
'religious belief' (subliminal ax-grinding, etc.) being repeated in this
thread that 'en-murkens' its intrinsic value.

Regards,
Bob - instrumentational minimalist - W.


P.S. With a bow to Thread Creep (and Winter, dry laugh)...as
fascinating a topic as AoA is, and as much as it affects the aerodynamic
behavior of wings, equally fascinating (to me, anyway) is the gamut of
human responses the topic has so-far illuminated. It ranges from
well-intentioned 'educators,' to inexperienced 'strong holders of
opinion skeptically resistant to change from instrumentational
status-quo.' We all know who we are!

What's fascinating to me is: What is it about 'topics' that leads to
stark opinional divergences as: a) this 'AoA discussion' vs. b) the
almost manic avidity underlying GPS overwhelm-ment of the (previously
widely held, and,) rule-forbidden resistance to navigation aids in both
badge and contest venues? I mean, w. the PW5 and silicone-in-wax
topics, we can at least sense the underlying reasons for rabidity, but
I'm struggling in this case!

There. My one attempted contribution to Northern Hemisphere Winter ROTS
(Rabidity of Topics Syndrome).

Ian wrote:


How on earth do you get that? The ASI is one of the things which
occupies my time on the approach. If I have to watch an AoA indicator
it will have to be instead of something else.

I don't have much
time in gliders but in my powered plane, I usually glance at the ASI as
I level the wings on final, then I just use visual (and wind noise)
references to make the landing with an occasional glance at ASI as I
start the roundout and flare.

Yes, that's how I do it. What would you not do in order to watch an
AoA indicator?


Speed up your scan, Ian.


Jack

Ian wrote:


Are you saying that I could look at another indicator without spending
any less time on anything else?

One can give adequate attention to every instrument which can fit on a
glider panel, and many more.


[....]


The vario-off mode is OK, if you must reduce the aural clutter, but
please tell us how you believe that turning off a major link (radio) you
have with one of the greatest hazards in flying (other traffic) is going
to improve your longevity....

Any thing which reduces potential distraction during the most
hazardous phase of flying is a Good Thing, in my book.

I find the radio useful for expanding awareness of those things which
are not readily visible. Continuous three-hundred-sixty degree
all-aspect awareness may be impossible for humans, but expanding what we
do have is always good. Having too much information is far more rare
than is sub-standard processing.


Hearing gliders isn't nearly as important as seeing them.

Seeing other aircraft is often aided by hearing radio transmissions.
Have you literally heard an aircraft you didn't first see? When you do,
you may wish you had had some indication of its location prior to your
close encounter. The radio is one way of improving your chances. I would
not want to restrict my ability to receive pertinent information from
air or ground sources.



Jack

On Dec 21, 9:58*am, J a c k wrote:
Ian wrote:
Are you saying that I could look at another indicator without spending
any less time on anything else?

One can give adequate attention to every instrument which can fit on a
glider panel, and many more.

[....]

The vario-off mode is OK, if you must reduce the aural clutter, but
please tell us how you believe that turning off a major link (radio) you
have with one of the greatest hazards in flying (other traffic) is going
to improve your longevity....
Any thing which reduces potential distraction during the most
hazardous phase of flying is a Good Thing, in my book.

I find the radio useful for expanding awareness of those things which
are not readily visible. Continuous three-hundred-sixty degree
all-aspect awareness may be impossible for humans, but expanding what we
do have is always good. Having too much information is far more rare
than is sub-standard processing.

Hearing gliders isn't nearly as important as seeing them.

Seeing other aircraft is often aided by hearing radio transmissions.
Have you literally heard an aircraft you didn't first see? When you do,
you may wish you had had some indication of its location prior to your
close encounter. The radio is one way of improving your chances. I would
not want to restrict my ability to receive pertinent information from
air or ground sources.

I also find the radio useful to listen for downwind calls, along with
the communication from launchpoint to winch. That's all we hear on
our ground frequency so it's not a lot and it's useful (to me). I
also like to have the vario on as whilst sink & lift can be obvious
(10 down certainly is!), it points it out very clearly and helps me
adjust the circuit to suit. A lot of my worst circuits have been
flown without the audio vario.

On 21 Dec, 10:35, Cats wrote:

I also find the radio useful to listen for downwind calls, along with
the communication from launchpoint to winch. That's all we hear on
our ground frequency so it's not a lot and it's useful (to me). I
also like to have the vario on as whilst sink & lift can be obvious
(10 down certainly is!), it points it out very clearly and helps me
adjust the circuit to suit. A lot of my worst circuits have been
flown without the audio vario.

As I wrote, " ... final approach ..."

Ian

On 21 Dec, 09:58, J a c k wrote:
Ian wrote:
Are you saying that I could look at another indicator without spending
any less time on anything else?

One can give adequate attention to every instrument which can fit on a
glider panel, and many more.

For a suitable definition of "adequate", of course you can. I prefer
to be looking for other gliders, myself.

I find the radio useful for expanding awareness of those things which
are not readily visible.

It also has a tendancy to concentrate attention on the gliders you can
here. Accidents have happened - to powered aircraft as well - when
pilots assumed that what they could hear was what they could see,

Ian

On 21 Dec, 08:57, J a c k wrote:
Ian wrote:

Yes, that's how I do it. What would you not do in order to watch an
AoA indicator?

Speed up your scan, Ian.

OK, so your answer is "look at everything else a bit less"?

Thanks,

Ian

On 20 Dec, 02:09, J a c k wrote:

The stalling angle of attack for a given class of airfoils is very
nearly the same for each. In any case, the indicator could be marked
appropriately, or in some way provide you with that information just as
our present ASi's have green arcs, white arcs, yellow radials, red
radials, and AS bugs, etc. Marc's comment concerning LED's is another
alternative.

Would you prefer to know about the free stream AoA or the local one -
which you will recall is generally significantly different at low
speeds. And how would you deal with washout? Or turns? None of these,
I imagine, would be a concern for fast moving aircraft with relatively
low aspect ratio wings.

Ian

On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 03:58:11 -0600, J a c k
wrote:
[snip]
Have you literally heard an aircraft you didn't first see?

I certainly have, and it was another glider. I don't recommend it.

When you do,
you may wish you had had some indication of its location prior to your
close encounter.

Bloody well right I did...

rj

I had a buddy who was killed in his sailplane when he was hit by a powered
plane while on final (the 3 people in the plane died even faster).

Bert

"Ian" wrote in message
...
On 21 Dec, 10:35, Cats wrote:

I also find the radio useful to listen for downwind calls, along with
the communication from launchpoint to winch. That's all we hear on
our ground frequency so it's not a lot and it's useful (to me). I
also like to have the vario on as whilst sink & lift can be obvious
(10 down certainly is!), it points it out very clearly and helps me
adjust the circuit to suit. A lot of my worst circuits have been
flown without the audio vario.

As I wrote, " ... final approach ..."

Ian