Stalls??

"Centurion" wrote in message ...

BTW, you haven't lived until you've done accelerated stalls that transition
into accelerated spins! Hoo-har!!

James
--
Write yourself a threatening letter and pen a defiant reply.



About 1978, in a C-150 @ ~2500 agl under a cloud bank, student practicing steep turns, and I notice he is trying to hold
the nose up using top rudder, with the ball off to the left. I also notice the speed decaying, but I figure I'll let him
get a little deeper in to it. The buzzer chipped and over we go into a right snap roll and down into a spin. Piece of
cake, except this guy is bigger than I am and he froze up on the controls, yoke back and spinning. I finally busted it
loose from him and effected a recovery, and when I checked the altimeter we were at about 800'. I decided that I would
not let students get that far out of shape anymore...

Blueskies wrote:


"Centurion" wrote in message
...

BTW, you haven't lived until you've done accelerated stalls that
transition into accelerated spins! Hoo-har!!

James


About 1978, in a C-150 @ ~2500 agl under a cloud bank, student practicing
steep turns, and I notice he is trying to hold the nose up using top
rudder, with the ball off to the left. I also notice the speed decaying,
but I figure I'll let him get a little deeper in to it. The buzzer chipped
and over we go into a right snap roll and down into a spin. Piece of cake,
except this guy is bigger than I am and he froze up on the controls, yoke
back and spinning. I finally busted it loose from him and effected a
recovery, and when I checked the altimeter we were at about 800'. I
decided that I would not let students get that far out of shape anymore...

Yep - similar story for me, only student was climbing and trimming
for "constant back-pressure" instead of trimming out the control force.
I'd corrected him on a few flights, so thought I'd let it go and let him
see what happens. End up with the nose about 55-60deg pitch up, full power
and over it went. Student lets go of the controls and grabs me! So there
we are going round and round, down, down, down with full power. Shook him
off and recovered, but decided that accelerated spin training is probably
best left for later phases :P

You live and learn. If you do neither, you're dead.

James
--
You will triumph over your enemy.

Centurion wrote:
Ol Shy & Bashful wrote:

Why is it so many pilots are afraid of stalls? I see it over an over
when doing flight reviews and checks. Why are pilots so afraid of
flying in the low end of the speed envelope? Isn't that where the
nasty things can happen? Isn't that where a pilot should be
comfortable and competent?
What do you think?

I think that to consider stalls within the confines of the low-speed end of
the envelope is naive at best and dangerous at worst. With 24,000+ hours
you obviously know that, but after skimming through the many (many) replies
to this thread I see scant little, if any, acknowledgement that the stall
occurs at a given angle of attack (AoA), not a SPEED!

You can safely (as in not over-stress the airframe) use full control
deflection from the bottom of the green arc (usually Vs) to Vmo. At Vmo,
full elevator deflection will result in the airframe's maximum certified G
load, right before the stall. IOW, max-G and stall occur simultaneously.
Below Vmo, the wing will stall before max-G. At 1G, the wing stalls at Vs.

Here's something to really fry your noodle: at zero-G, the wing wont stall
(think about it).

My point is, stalls are an aerodynamic phenomena that is tied to the AoA,
not the ASI. I have a CFI, ATPL, aerobatics endorsements, etc, and
several thousand hours too...but all this is basic aeronautical knowledge
that is taught at ab-initio stage. Stalls shouldn't be feared, just
understood, then practised until they are as familiar as any other phase of
flight - right across the speed envelope.

BTW, you haven't lived until you've done accelerated stalls that transition
into accelerated spins! Hoo-har!!

James

Correct me if I'm mistaken as it's been a long long time since I've been
in a Cessna 182, ( and I'm just using a 182 as an example here out of
the inventory of everything that flies since the Vmo for the Skylane
pops into my rather feeble brain :-)) but if I remember right, the Vmo
on the Skylane was 160 KIAS. The Va or maneuvering speed on the Skylane
at GW was 111.
It's just a suggestion mind you, but I wouldn't be in all that much in a
hurry to apply full back elevator on the airplane at 160knots or Vmo
unless I wanted to crack the world record for a Cessna 182 making it
sans a few misc parts from where ever it was in the sky when I did this
to impact on the ground :-))

--
Dudley Henriques

Dudley Henriques wrote:

Centurion wrote:
Ol Shy & Bashful wrote:

Why is it so many pilots are afraid of stalls? I see it over an over
when doing flight reviews and checks. Why are pilots so afraid of
flying in the low end of the speed envelope? Isn't that where the
nasty things can happen? Isn't that where a pilot should be
comfortable and competent?
What do you think?

I think that to consider stalls within the confines of the low-speed end
of
the envelope is naive at best and dangerous at worst. With 24,000+ hours
you obviously know that, but after skimming through the many (many)
replies to this thread I see scant little, if any, acknowledgement that
the stall occurs at a given angle of attack (AoA), not a SPEED!

You can safely (as in not over-stress the airframe) use full control
deflection from the bottom of the green arc (usually Vs) to Vmo. At Vmo,
full elevator deflection will result in the airframe's maximum certified
G
load, right before the stall. IOW, max-G and stall occur simultaneously.
Below Vmo, the wing will stall before max-G. At 1G, the wing stalls at
Vs.

Here's something to really fry your noodle: at zero-G, the wing wont
stall (think about it).

My point is, stalls are an aerodynamic phenomena that is tied to the AoA,
not the ASI. I have a CFI, ATPL, aerobatics endorsements, etc, and
several thousand hours too...but all this is basic aeronautical knowledge
that is taught at ab-initio stage. Stalls shouldn't be feared, just
understood, then practised until they are as familiar as any other phase
of flight - right across the speed envelope.

BTW, you haven't lived until you've done accelerated stalls that
transition into accelerated spins! Hoo-har!!

James

Correct me if I'm mistaken as it's been a long long time since I've been
in a Cessna 182, ( and I'm just using a 182 as an example here out of
the inventory of everything that flies since the Vmo for the Skylane
pops into my rather feeble brain :-)) but if I remember right, the Vmo
on the Skylane was 160 KIAS. The Va or maneuvering speed on the Skylane
at GW was 111.

Ooops. You're 100% correct - I mean't Va NOT Vmo! Serves me right for not
proof-reading my post :P

It's just a suggestion mind you, but I wouldn't be in all that much in a
hurry to apply full back elevator on the airplane at 160knots or Vmo
unless I wanted to crack the world record for a Cessna 182 making it
sans a few misc parts from where ever it was in the sky when I did this
to impact on the ground :-))

Indeed. That's a quite possible outcome. IIRC ultimate load for normal
category aircraft is 150% rated G (as in 1.5 times). The following thread
will be of interest to those interested in the high-speed end of the flight
envelope and how that is determined based on component failure
probabilities:
http://tinyurl.com/yrqz4f (links to http://www.eng-tips.com/)

Thanks for highlighting my misinformation

James
--
Are you making all this up as you go along?

Curt Balluff wrote:

Am Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:53:53 -0800 (PST) schrub "Ol Shy & Bashful"
:

Why is it so many pilots are afraid of stalls?
Depends on the height.

Curt

lol - good point

James
--
Avoid reality at all costs.