C172 and Spins

Dan wrote in news:d6ef000c-45fe-42e6-93e2-
:

On Mar 20, 10:15 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

Well, they're roughly the same planform, though the 150s surely must
be
smaller overall. I think they both use an old fat NACA semi-
symetrical.
In fact, I think Cessna only used one airfoil for all the strutted
pistons, so it would be CG and elevator authority that dicated it's
ability to do one. I'd say you could do it, but the chances of
pulling
something off would be pretty good. At the very least I'd say you
might
find some slightly stretched metal wing mounting parts if you looked
after doing a few snap rolls at a good speed.

Well, that's certainly more than enough reason NOT to do that in this
172!


The 150 series certainly stall breaks cleaner, but I don't know if
that's due to CG or wing design.

Proly CG and the relatively limited elevator available compared to
the
150. Neither will stay in a spin very long, but the 172, I dont think
I've ever managed over a turn in any of them, and a half a turn is
more
par for the course. The added power in a snap would probably aid in
the
elevator department and allow a complete rotation, but I'm only
guessing.

Bertie

The best spin wrung from the C172E (3 turns, tiny amount of residual
power going into the spin) was from a cross control stall to the left.
Full left rudder, full right aileron, full back elevator....

In a blink we were inverted, then into fairly nice high rotation rate,
low airspeed, very little pitch bobbing -- a by-the-book fully
developed spin.

Power off, full opposite rudder and simply release the back pressure
and the spin stopped.

Otherwise, you're right -- by turn 1 1/2 the 172 is pulling itself
into a steep spiral.


I never spun as early a one as that. in fact, I don't think I've ever
flown a continental powered 172, so they might be slightly different in
more than just the engine. You sure you weren't spiraling, though? The
very early square tail 172s might have had more elevator authority and
they definitely would have had more rudder. I don't think I'bve ever
spun a 170, though we definitly would have done things like falling
leaves and such in the one I used to fly since it was a trainer. Come to
think of it I've done falling leaves in a 172 as well. They'll drop a
wing allright, they just won't stay in the spin.


Bertie

On Mar 21, 1:44 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dan wrote in news:d6ef000c-45fe-42e6-93e2-
:





On Mar 20, 10:15 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

Well, they're roughly the same planform, though the 150s surely must
be
smaller overall. I think they both use an old fat NACA semi-
symetrical.
In fact, I think Cessna only used one airfoil for all the strutted
pistons, so it would be CG and elevator authority that dicated it's
ability to do one. I'd say you could do it, but the chances of
pulling
something off would be pretty good. At the very least I'd say you
might
find some slightly stretched metal wing mounting parts if you looked
after doing a few snap rolls at a good speed.

Well, that's certainly more than enough reason NOT to do that in this
172!

The 150 series certainly stall breaks cleaner, but I don't know if
that's due to CG or wing design.

Proly CG and the relatively limited elevator available compared to
the
150. Neither will stay in a spin very long, but the 172, I dont think
I've ever managed over a turn in any of them, and a half a turn is
more
par for the course. The added power in a snap would probably aid in
the
elevator department and allow a complete rotation, but I'm only
guessing.

Bertie

The best spin wrung from the C172E (3 turns, tiny amount of residual
power going into the spin) was from a cross control stall to the left.
Full left rudder, full right aileron, full back elevator....

In a blink we were inverted, then into fairly nice high rotation rate,
low airspeed, very little pitch bobbing -- a by-the-book fully
developed spin.

Power off, full opposite rudder and simply release the back pressure
and the spin stopped.

Otherwise, you're right -- by turn 1 1/2 the 172 is pulling itself
into a steep spiral.

I never spun as early a one as that. in fact, I don't think I've ever
flown a continental powered 172, so they might be slightly different in
more than just the engine. You sure you weren't spiraling, though? The
very early square tail 172s might have had more elevator authority and
they definitely would have had more rudder. I don't think I'bve ever
spun a 170, though we definitly would have done things like falling
leaves and such in the one I used to fly since it was a trainer. Come to
think of it I've done falling leaves in a 172 as well. They'll drop a
wing allright, they just won't stay in the spin.

Bertie

May have been spiraling by turn 3...

I was in right seat and had a hard time getting a good read on the
ASI.


Dan Mc

Dan wrote in news:1cb92ef6-6416-49a4-b564-eb00a52135a1
@b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com:

Bertie

May have been spiraling by turn 3...

I was in right seat and had a hard time getting a good read on the
ASI.


Dunno, it wouldn't take much of a rigging change to make a difference.
Bertie

On Mar 21, 3:43 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

May have been spiraling by turn 3...

I was in right seat and had a hard time getting a good read on the
ASI.

Dunno, it wouldn't take much of a rigging change to make a difference.
Bertie

Oh?

Dan wrote in news:567b2791-aea0-4f51-b1e7-
:

On Mar 21, 3:43 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

May have been spiraling by turn 3...

I was in right seat and had a hard time getting a good read on the
ASI.

Dunno, it wouldn't take much of a rigging change to make a
difference.
Bertie

Oh?


More up elevator would probably do it for starters. There's only enough
to get you to crit alpha, no more, thats one reason why power helps, it
increases the authority of the elevator


Bertie


Bertie

On Mar 21, 3:58 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

Dunno, it wouldn't take much of a rigging change to make a
difference.
Bertie

Oh?

More up elevator would probably do it for starters. There's only enough
to get you to crit alpha, no more, thats one reason why power helps, it
increases the authority of the elevator

Bertie

True... I was only thinking of rigging n the fly-straight sense, not
elevator -- duh.

This particular airplane seems to have weak right rudder -- 10 knot x-
wind is more than it can handle in a slip -- rudder is to the stop,
while left I can easily stay straight banking much more steeply (this
is in approach, so left turning tendency is not a factor).

Yet the airplane appears to fly straight...

I suppose it's asking alot of a 44 year old airplane for everything to
be in perfect harmony!


Dan Mc

Dan wrote in news:815d450d-6bc2-46f0-8513-
:

On Mar 21, 3:58 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

Dunno, it wouldn't take much of a rigging change to make a
difference.
Bertie

Oh?

More up elevator would probably do it for starters. There's only
enough
to get you to crit alpha, no more, thats one reason why power helps,
it
increases the authority of the elevator

Bertie

True... I was only thinking of rigging n the fly-straight sense, not
elevator -- duh.

This particular airplane seems to have weak right rudder -- 10 knot x-
wind is more than it can handle in a slip -- rudder is to the stop,
while left I can easily stay straight banking much more steeply (this
is in approach, so left turning tendency is not a factor).

Yet the airplane appears to fly straight...

I suppose it's asking alot of a 44 year old airplane for everything to
be in perfect harmony!


A 44 year old anything.

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dan wrote in news:815d450d-6bc2-46f0-8513-
:

On Mar 21, 3:58 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dunno, it wouldn't take much of a rigging change to make a
difference.
Bertie
Oh?
More up elevator would probably do it for starters. There's only
enough
to get you to crit alpha, no more, thats one reason why power helps,
it
increases the authority of the elevator

Bertie
True... I was only thinking of rigging n the fly-straight sense, not
elevator -- duh.

This particular airplane seems to have weak right rudder -- 10 knot x-
wind is more than it can handle in a slip -- rudder is to the stop,
while left I can easily stay straight banking much more steeply (this
is in approach, so left turning tendency is not a factor).

Yet the airplane appears to fly straight...

I suppose it's asking alot of a 44 year old airplane for everything to
be in perfect harmony!


A 44 year old anything.



Hey...I haven't been in perfect harmony for a LONG time :-)

--
Dudley Henriques

Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dan wrote in news:815d450d-6bc2-46f0-8513-
:

On Mar 21, 3:58 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dunno, it wouldn't take much of a rigging change to make a
difference.
Bertie
Oh?
More up elevator would probably do it for starters. There's only
enough
to get you to crit alpha, no more, thats one reason why power
helps,
it
increases the authority of the elevator

Bertie
True... I was only thinking of rigging n the fly-straight sense, not
elevator -- duh.

This particular airplane seems to have weak right rudder -- 10 knot
x-
wind is more than it can handle in a slip -- rudder is to the stop,
while left I can easily stay straight banking much more steeply
(this
is in approach, so left turning tendency is not a factor).

Yet the airplane appears to fly straight...

I suppose it's asking alot of a 44 year old airplane for everything
to
be in perfect harmony!


A 44 year old anything.



Hey...I haven't been in perfect harmony for a LONG time :-)


unless you count eveything falling apart in equal portions as harmony!

Bertie

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dan wrote in news:815d450d-6bc2-46f0-8513-
:

On Mar 21, 3:58 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dunno, it wouldn't take much of a rigging change to make a
difference.
Bertie
Oh?
More up elevator would probably do it for starters. There's only
enough
to get you to crit alpha, no more, thats one reason why power
helps,
it
increases the authority of the elevator

Bertie
True... I was only thinking of rigging n the fly-straight sense, not
elevator -- duh.

This particular airplane seems to have weak right rudder -- 10 knot
x-
wind is more than it can handle in a slip -- rudder is to the stop,
while left I can easily stay straight banking much more steeply
(this
is in approach, so left turning tendency is not a factor).

Yet the airplane appears to fly straight...

I suppose it's asking alot of a 44 year old airplane for everything
to
be in perfect harmony!

A 44 year old anything.



Hey...I haven't been in perfect harmony for a LONG time :-)


unless you count eveything falling apart in equal portions as harmony!

Bertie
You might just have a point there :-)

--
Dudley Henriques