If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#71
|
|||
|
|||
"Denyav" wrote in message ... Perfectly true, their reaction to the news of the Hiroshima bomb was initially disbelief. They firmly believed they were in the lead and since they 'knew' a bomb was years away there was no way the western allies could have done this. Farm Hall was a well the part of misinformation campaign of the victors. First message they want convey was "German Scientist were unable to calculate critical mass" But they had a problem namely according Wehrmact documents a Wehrmact physicist (Deibner)calculated critical mass exactly and reported it to Wehrmact in Feb.42. No he guessed rather inaccurately that it was between 10 and 100 kg So apparently German scientists forgat in Farm Hall what they knew in Feb42!!. So this misinformation campaign collapsed but another one launched to replace it namely "Good German scientists (Heisenberg)sabotaged evil Nazis nuclear bomb making plans" That may be Heisenberg's motivation This could be good starting point for a Hollywood movie but licht years away from the reality.Heisenberg could not sabotage anything because he was wrong in 41 as he was in 45. Only key person in German nuclear program who might have a reason to sabotage program was Houtermans but his background was very well known,anything less than success would mean sure death for Houtermans and probably for his family. Houtermans was scarcely a key player, he was in an industrial lan for most of the war BTW according to pre Farm Hall planning,only two of Farm Hall Guests supposed to leave Farm Hall as free man.,but none of them got jailed. Food for thought. Many German were interned after the war, few were charged and most released. Keith |
#72
|
|||
|
|||
"Denyav" wrote in message ... No its what the German physicists themselves and German records say. Who else should we listen to if not men like Diebner, Heisenberg etc. All Farm Hall transcripts are edited,even in no portion of edited and carefully selected transcripts you cannot find anything that suggests that Deibner is unaware of A-Bomb. Only conclusion you can draw from transcripts that the relationship between Heisenberg and Diebner must be terrible,they probably hated each other. They did, a result of the competition for resources Who else should you listen other than Deibner ? No one , he is clear that Germany was never even close to developing a nuclear weapon. for example other fathers of German bomb von Ardenne and Houtermans? Nope, there was no bomb. But they had unfortunately no time to participate in PR efforts of western allies,they were building the Soviet Bomb. Using information from Los Alamos Or you might want to check Daily Mail dated 8.9.45 I doubt it. Keith |
#73
|
|||
|
|||
|
#74
|
|||
|
|||
He was never found , its hard to try a prisoner you dont have.
Nobody has ever made an attempt find him or launched an investigation to find out his whereabouts at the first place. Dare to compare this with the efforts to catch very low key Nazi criminals like simple concentration camp guards. Even his name appeared only once in allied documents. As they did in all countries, Urenco a joint Dutch, German and UK firm only perfected the technology in the 1960's Prior to that everyone used a combination of diffusion and cyclotron technologies Almost all German centrifuge experts together with the most of intact equipment of Skoda,Degussa and Auer companies were transferred to soviet union,thats the reason why Soviet Union became suddenly world leader in centrifuge technology after WWII,while centrifuge development elsewhere stalled. In western world serious centrifuge develepment started to accelerate only in mid mid to late fifties when Germans started to leave Soviet Union with their wealth of experience. |
#75
|
|||
|
|||
No he guessed rather inaccurately that it was between 10 and 100 kg
Actually he calculated the exact amount used in Hirosima bomb. Actually I recommend to anyone to check out all released (vast majority of them are not released) Farm Hall transcripts,You will be surprised to see the level of their knowledge about ignition mechanism used in Hirosima bomb. A very bad editing job of CSDIC officials. That may be Heisenberg's motivation Or his assigned post WWII role. Houtermans was scarcely a key player, he was in an industrial lan for most of the war Houtermans was the developer of German and soviet plutonium bomb. |
#76
|
|||
|
|||
They did, a result of the competition for resources
More likely ideological,Deibner was a hard liner,Heisenberg not. No one , he is clear that Germany was never even close to developing a nuclear weapon. Really,then go to your local library and check out Washington Post dated 10.9.45 ,apparently days right after VE day were more open society type days than we have today. What does "close" mean?,they have even tested it.(and killed thousands of German citizens,slave laborers etc). Nope, there was no bomb. There were two partially complete bombs AND they both were used. Using information from Los Alamos But US and USSR designs were very similar not surprisingly because they were designed by the same Germans,but some had to die for a cover up story. Without occupation of Germany Manhattan Project would be one of biggest and most expensive failures in the human history. I doubt it. Then check out WP referred above. |
#77
|
|||
|
|||
"Denyav" wrote in message ... He was never found , its hard to try a prisoner you dont have. Nobody has ever made an attempt find him or launched an investigation to find out his whereabouts at the first place. Dare to compare this with the efforts to catch very low key Nazi criminals like simple concentration camp guards. Even his name appeared only once in allied documents. Bull**** A quick google search will turn up dozens of references to him His name appears no less than 6 times in the opening statements of prosecuting counsel at the Nuremburg trial where it was made clear that he was high on the list of criminals being sought for prosection. Walter Dornberger who loathed Kammler reported that Kammler had ordered his adjutant to shoot him so as not to fall into Russian hands. Its is known for certain that he was NOT anongst the group that surrendered to the Americans. As they did in all countries, Urenco a joint Dutch, German and UK firm only perfected the technology in the 1960's Prior to that everyone used a combination of diffusion and cyclotron technologies Almost all German centrifuge experts together with the most of intact equipment of Skoda,Degussa and Auer companies were transferred to soviet union,thats the reason why Soviet Union became suddenly world leader in centrifuge technology after WWII,while centrifuge development elsewhere stalled. Crap ! The first Soviet enrichment plant (unit D-1) was a gaseous diffusion plant, building began in 1946 and the plant went on line in 1948. Three newer and larger gaseous diffusion plants - D-3, D-4 and D-5 - were brought into operation by 1953 The first Soviet centrifuge plant was built at Sverdlovsk-44 in 3 stages between 1962 and 1964 and the Gaseous Diffusion plants remained in production well into the 70's In western world serious centrifuge develepment started to accelerate only in mid mid to late fifties when Germans started to leave Soviet Union with their wealth of experience. Which would make it 10 years before it happened in the USSR. This is of course another of your fairy tales. The simple reality is that serious post war development started in 1964 in West Germany with the founding of a state owned company called "Gesellschaft fuer Kernverfahrenstechnik" (GKT) at Juelich. On March 1, 1970 the company was privatised. After several changes in the 70's, Hoechst AG (25 %), RWE (37.5 %) and PreussenElektra (Veba, 37.5 %) became shareholders of the newly founded Uranit GmbH. On March 4, 1970, Germany, The Netherlands and the United Kingdom signed the "Treaty of Almelo" for the development and industrial exploitation of centrifuge technology to enrich uranium. In 1971, the three industrial partners: British Nuclear Fuels plc (BNFL), Ultra-Centrifuge Nederland N.V. (UCN) and Uranit GmbH founded the jointly-owned Urenco Ltd in Marlow to market their enrichment services. It was Urenco that jointly developed centrifuge technology to industrial maturity during the mid-1970's. The first uranium enrichment plants were built at Almelo in the Netherlands and at Capenhurst in the United Kingdom. The German uranium enrichment plant at Gronau went into operation in 1985. Stop making stuff up Denyav. Keith |
#78
|
|||
|
|||
"Denyav" wrote in message ... No he guessed rather inaccurately that it was between 10 and 100 kg Actually he calculated the exact amount used in Hirosima bomb. Actually I recommend to anyone to check out all released (vast majority of them are not released) Farm Hall transcripts,You will be surprised to see the level of their knowledge about ignition mechanism used in Hirosima bomb. A very bad editing job of CSDIC officials. Bull**** Denyav The unedited Farm Hall Transcripts are available for around $35 Operation Epsilon : The Farm Hall Transcripts, with an introduction by Sir Charles Frank (Bristol and Philadelphia: Institute of Physics Publishing; Los Angeles: University of California Press, 1993). That may be Heisenberg's motivation Or his assigned post WWII role. His post war role was the director of the Kaiser Wilhelm Institute for Physics in Gottingen Houtermans was scarcely a key player, he was in an industrial lan for most of the war Houtermans was the developer of German and soviet plutonium bomb. That he was not Keith |
#79
|
|||
|
|||
"Denyav" wrote in message ... They did, a result of the competition for resources More likely ideological,Deibner was a hard liner,Heisenberg not. No one , he is clear that Germany was never even close to developing a nuclear weapon. Really,then go to your local library and check out Washington Post dated 10.9.45 ,apparently days right after VE day were more open society type days than we have today. What does "close" mean?,they have even tested it.(and killed thousands of German citizens,slave laborers etc). Nope, there was no bomb. There were two partially complete bombs AND they both were used. Using information from Los Alamos But US and USSR designs were very similar not surprisingly because they were designed by the same Germans,but some had to die for a cover up story. They are the same because Klaus Fuchs sent the designs to Moscow via the Rosenbergs. A cover up would require the active co-operation of 1) The Entire Los Alamos team 2) The entire German Nuclear development team 3) The entire Soviet team 4) The entire British Nuclear team 5) The German leaders tried at Nuremburg including Hermann Goering 6) Joseph Stalin 7) Harry Truman 8) Winston Churchill 9) Nihls Bohr 10) Klaus Fuchs 11) Nikita Khruschev 12) Lavrenti Beria 13) Academician Ivan Kurchatov 14) Andrei Sakharov (a famous dissident) Thats enough to be going on with I think Without occupation of Germany Manhattan Project would be one of biggest and most expensive failures in the human history. Newspapers arent the best source of history, especially in war time when they are heavily censored and have little real data to publish Keith |
#80
|
|||
|
|||
Bull**** Denyav
The unedited Farm Hall Transcripts are available for around $ There is NO unedited Farm Hall,transcripts . Would you please explain for what CSDIC stands for? Farm hall "guests" were actually prisoners without any rights. Even if you read "edited" Farm Hall documents carefully you will be amazed to see that German scients were pretty informed about ignition mechanism of Little Boy as if they designed it. Houtermans was the developer of German and soviet plutonium bomb. That he was not He was the master of plutonium bomb development,and he is the Communist German citizen that His Majesty's goverment risked a confrontation with Stalin just before WWII for his safe return to Nazi Germany from stalins prison. Why British gov't intervened for a German citizen jailed in Stalins' Soviet Union? Any Ideas? |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
London Blitz vs V1 | Bernardz | Military Aviation | 59 | January 25th 04 09:34 PM |
About French cowards. | Michael Smith | Military Aviation | 45 | October 22nd 03 03:15 PM |
Ungrateful Americans Unworthy of the French | The Black Monk | Military Aviation | 62 | October 16th 03 08:05 AM |
Enemies Of Everyone | Grantland | Military Aviation | 5 | September 16th 03 12:55 PM |