So what happens when 100LL is gone anyway?

Martin Hotze wrote:

"Morgans" wrote:


modern European deisel automobile engines are not seen in the US

Why is that?


hm, maybe a uneducated guess: most (not all) Americans are not really into
innovation,


??? Idiotic statement.


and most are not into anything being not "made in America".


??? We have a higher trade deficit than anyone else. We buy so many
foreign cars they make them here now.

Thomas Borchert wrote:




The market is different. Nobody cares about gas consumption in the US.
Everbody wants ridiculously BIG cars in the US, whereas European cars
are mostly way smaller.

Yes, exactly. I have no interest in driving a speck. I will give up a
few miles per gallon to drive something substantial.


And you guys have this obsession about "buying
American". So you don't always get the best ;-)

You're off track there. We buy lots of foreign cars and trucks.
Millions of them.

"Darrel Toepfer" wrote in message
. ..
Mike Rapoport wrote:

I really doubt that you are going to same fuel and time. Small turbines
burn significantly more fuel to produce the same power than reciprocating
engines.

He's using the Czech turbine as I recall. Previous conversion was on an
earlier Beech airframe. Longer TBO's for the turbine, slightly higher fuel
consumption over twin pistons, lighter airframe, higher cruise
speeds/altitudes and improved TO/LD performance...

The more you fly, more money stays in your pocket on average comparison...

These are claims by the seller. . Keep in mind that it takes a small
turbine one third to one half more fuel to produce the same amount of power
compared to a recip. There is no way to get around this. It is great to
say that at FL300 you can get great fuel economy in your unpressurized
turbine Baron but the rality is that nobody is going to fly an unpressurizd
airplane that high except as a stunt.

Mike
MU-2

"Martin Hotze" wrote in message
...
"Morgans" wrote:

modern European deisel automobile engines are not seen in the US

Why is that?

hm, maybe a uneducated guess: most (not all) Americans are not really into
innovation, and most are not into anything being not "made in America".
Most Americans don't have the need to travel outside of their country, so
their point of view is most likely very America-centered (this also backed
up with little to no information on what is going on on the other 70% of
the world). So everything coming from abroad is seen as bad.

#m
--
Three witches watch three Swatch watches.
Which witch watches which Swatch watch?

More likely because you can't sell them in five states including California
and New York (the largest markets) because of the way the pollution
regulations were written combined with the quality of diesel fuel in the US.

Mike
MU-2

Mike Rapoport wrote:

These are claims by the seller. . Keep in mind that it takes a small
turbine one third to one half more fuel to produce the same amount of power
compared to a recip. There is no way to get around this. It is great to
say that at FL300 you can get great fuel economy in your unpressurized
turbine Baron but the rality is that nobody is going to fly an unpressurizd
airplane that high except as a stunt.

Point taken... Thanks...

On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 17:02:07 GMT, "Mike Rapoport"
wrote:

More likely because you can't sell them in five states including California
and New York (the largest markets) because of the way the pollution
regulations were written combined with the quality of diesel fuel in the US.

It is a conundrum. I looked at the specs for the VW Golf with the TDI
turbo diesel, and it has essentially the same EPA mileage as the Honda
Civic hyrid. But apparently, the oxides of nitrogen emissions don't
meet CA standards.

But really, it's not just the NOX emissions. There's a whole
infrastructure here in CA for testing emissions of gas-burning cars
while on a dynamometer. It's worth the investment for service
stations to purchase those test cells because there are enough
gas-powered cars to test to make their payback pretty quick
Meanwhile diesels cars are simply exempt from testing probably because
there are so few of them.

But you can't buy a new one in the state.

This is not totally stupid. I understand that the Golf TDI is detuned
in order to meet the rather good emissions figures (outside of NOX) it
does achieve. It's easy to imagine that a fair amount of souping up
would take place if new Golfs were sold -- at the cost of all kinds of
higher emissions.. And there'd be no way of catching the cheaters
without smog testing, for which there is no equipment. And . . .
it's chicken/egg time. Easier to just keep the ban in place.

You do see the occasional TDI Golf around California. They can't stop
you bringing in a used one. But I gave up looking at them when I
realized that there cant be very many trained mechanics in a state
where you can't sell them.

Newps, I loved your line about "We like foreign cars so much, we build
'em here."

Don

Yes and it is not just deciding which evil to combat (CO2, NOX, HC or SO2)
but also how you decide to measure it. My understanding is that pollutants
are measured and regulated by ppm which makes little sense. If car A emits
10ppm of some pollutant and car B emits 8ppm but car A uses 30% less fuel,
then car A actually emits less pollutants than car B since the total amount
of exhaust is 30% less.

Mike
MU-2


"Don Tuite" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 17:02:07 GMT, "Mike Rapoport"
wrote:

More likely because you can't sell them in five states including
California
and New York (the largest markets) because of the way the pollution
regulations were written combined with the quality of diesel fuel in the
US.

It is a conundrum. I looked at the specs for the VW Golf with the TDI
turbo diesel, and it has essentially the same EPA mileage as the Honda
Civic hyrid. But apparently, the oxides of nitrogen emissions don't
meet CA standards.

But really, it's not just the NOX emissions. There's a whole
infrastructure here in CA for testing emissions of gas-burning cars
while on a dynamometer. It's worth the investment for service
stations to purchase those test cells because there are enough
gas-powered cars to test to make their payback pretty quick
Meanwhile diesels cars are simply exempt from testing probably because
there are so few of them.

But you can't buy a new one in the state.

This is not totally stupid. I understand that the Golf TDI is detuned
in order to meet the rather good emissions figures (outside of NOX) it
does achieve. It's easy to imagine that a fair amount of souping up
would take place if new Golfs were sold -- at the cost of all kinds of
higher emissions.. And there'd be no way of catching the cheaters
without smog testing, for which there is no equipment. And . . .
it's chicken/egg time. Easier to just keep the ban in place.

You do see the occasional TDI Golf around California. They can't stop
you bringing in a used one. But I gave up looking at them when I
realized that there cant be very many trained mechanics in a state
where you can't sell them.

Newps, I loved your line about "We like foreign cars so much, we build
'em here."

Don

On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 17:53:28 GMT, Don Tuite wrote:


But you can't buy a new one in the state.

and what about Canada? are there any new diesels available? you still can
go up there and import one.

#m
--
The most likely way for the world to be destroyed,
most experts agree, is by accident. That's where we
come in; we're computer professionals. We cause accidents.
-- Nathaniel Borenstein

On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 09:24:45 -0600, Newps wrote:

and most are not into anything being not "made in America".

I can't find much in my clothes closet, office, or garage that WAS
made in the U.S. Of the Big Five U.S. automobile manufacturers, one is
German and two are Japanese.


??? We have a higher trade deficit than anyone else. We buy so many
foreign cars they make them here now.

The deficit is a direct result of the world savings glut. How else
would the rest of the world get the money here? Get rid of the deficit
and the world falls into depression, taking us with it. Japan has been
in the toilet since the 1980s and only now is beginning to get its
chin over the rim. Europe has been in the toilet since the 1990s and
looks like it will never get out (with a few exceptions, like Britain,
which is still benefiting from its dose of Thatcherism).

And how does buying a U.S.-built Honda affect the deficit?



-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
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On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 07:16:24 +0200, Martin Hotze
wrote:

But you can't buy a new one in the state.

and what about Canada? are there any new diesels available? you still can
go up there and import one.

Surely it would be easier to stop in Oregon en route?


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com