Oshkosh arrivals

My wife and I drove down from our home in Appleton to Oshkosh today (Sunday
the 23rd) for a few hours to watch arrivals. We saw the first Cessna 172
land and we were at AeroShell Square to see them pull it onto the display
ramp. Way cool! On my scanner we heard some guy in a Cessna 180 yelling
"I'm outta gas!!!!" on the Runway 18-36 freq. Amazingly, he made the
runway, but must have landed too hard because he closed the runway for a 10
minutes or so until they were able to get his plane moved. We sat under the
appoach to 09 for awhile, and listening to the radio while watching everyone
coming was just amazing. Kudos to all you guys brave enough to fly in.
Personally I'm glad I can just drive, it was frightening enough just
watching. A Citation jet following a Piper Cub to 09 without much distance
at all between them was easily the most amazing thing I saw today. Unreal!
Scott Wilson

On Sun, 23 Jul 2006 19:12:09 GMT, wrote in
::

On my scanner we heard some guy in a Cessna 180 yelling
"I'm outta gas!!!!" on the Runway 18-36 freq.

That C-180 pilot needs some retraining. It would be a shame for him
and his passengers to become NTSB statistics. I'm sure the local FSDO
Inspector had a word with him after they got his airplane out of the
way.

I wonder how many mishaps occur annually at Air Venture?

In article ,
Larry Dighera wrote:

On Sun, 23 Jul 2006 19:12:09 GMT, wrote in
::

On my scanner we heard some guy in a Cessna 180 yelling
"I'm outta gas!!!!" on the Runway 18-36 freq.

That C-180 pilot needs some retraining. It would be a shame for him
and his passengers to become NTSB statistics. I'm sure the local FSDO
Inspector had a word with him after they got his airplane out of the
way.

I wonder how many mishaps occur annually at Air Venture?

That's easy. Just read the NTSB and FAA accident pages each day.

I wonder how many mishaps occur annually at Air Venture?

That's easy. Just read the NTSB and FAA accident pages each day.

There has already been a double fatal crash, today.

At around 8:45 this morning, an experimental came down short of 9/27, and
both of the occupants died. The Oshkosh papers had no more details, but I
was able to find one source that said they were from Washington state. No
other details, as to why they came down short, or what kind of plane.

It is a rare year that at least 6 don't die either on the way to or on the
way home from Osh. Some years there are no fatals in the immediate area,
and some years there are several fatals due to airport operations.
--
Jim in NC

Had an interesting flight this year into OSH because of this crash.
Apparantly the ripple effect piled up the holds around Rush Lake, and
then Green Lake.

When I arrived in my 172 from Madison, everyone was to enter the hold
at Green Lake (which is new this year), or to hold outside somewhere
else (anywhere else). Coming up on Ripon, I spied a Mooney, got behind
him and had pretty smooth sailing entering the hold over Green. The
radio was alive with two different calls of bingo fuel, as well as all
sorts of different unidentified calls to remind people: "come on, 90
knots", or "speed it up Ercoupe" and so forth and so on. One could also
tell that Rush was packed with planes, that were slowly then allowed to
re-enter the approach over Ripon and start up the tracks to Fisk.

One problem that became quite apparant to those of us holding over
Green Lake was that some of our not so scrupulous bretheren (or
clueless) just barreled on thru from all points of the compass, past
Green Lake, past Ripon, and on up the tracks. This of course gummed up
the works for the controllers trying to work people out of the hold
over Rush, but eventually things calmed down to the point where the
Rush Lake hold was cleared, and those of us over Green were allowed to
proceed. It got a little challenging trying to keep your head on a
swivel, while tracking the guy ahead of you and trying to ignore the
guy behind you, whose shadow I could see on the ground pretty close
behind me (makes me thankful I had a 172C with no back window!),
staying at 90 and 1800 and 1/2.

I "only" spent about an hour in the hold, many more were there longer,
on the order of 2+ hours.
Those flying today probably also chuckled about the (ultralight?) pilot
who admitted he didn't have the notam with him for the u/l proceedure.

DOH!

This is the third time I've flown in, and all in all a pretty
educational experience.

While holding over the lake I thought about the congestion on the
radio, and I guess my thought about this Green lake holding pattern, is
that it is probably not a bad idea, but having a seperate freq for some
controllers moved even more forward to Ripon might help sort things
out, while still keeping the Fisk frequency relatively clear to manage
the pipeline from Ripon to OSH. It would also help control the flow
starting at Ripon, rather than Fisk.
But then again, the Fisk approach procedure has worked so well for so
long....

Ryan Wubben
Co-Chairman, EAA Flight Line Operations

wrote

Had an interesting flight this year into OSH because of this crash.
Apparantly the ripple effect piled up the holds around Rush Lake, and
then Green Lake.

When I arrived in my 172 from Madison, everyone was to enter the hold
at Green Lake (which is new this year), or to hold outside somewhere
else (anywhere else). Coming up on Ripon, I spied a Mooney, got behind
him and had pretty smooth sailing entering the hold over Green. The
radio was alive with two different calls of bingo fuel,

I wonder if they need a new procedure to land people at one of the
out-airports, to relaunch them back to OSH, when things like this happen.

I also wonder if the holds were what bit the 180? driver that landed so hard
on 36 , after the "I've run out of gas" call that another poster mentioned.

It makes someone's advice, on this very group a couple days ago, to not try
and come in toward OSH on fumes - to land somewhere out, and arrive with
plenty of fuel - to be even better advise.
--
Jim in NC

On 23 Jul 2006 20:46:38 -0700, wrote in
. com::

The radio was alive with two different calls of bingo fuel,

Imagine how chagrined Burt Rutan must be to be associated with these
pilots through his membership in the EAA.

On Sun, 23 Jul 2006 22:04:56 -0400, "Morgans"
wrote in ::

It is a rare year that at least 6 don't die either on the way to or on the
way home from Osh.

That is truly tragic and pathetic. Is that the best airmen can do?

Some years there are no fatals in the immediate area,
and some years there are several fatals due to airport operations.

I would say they were probably due to pilot incompetence rather than
blame airport operations.

What sort of image do such statistics about airmen conger in the minds
of the lay public?

What sort of program does the Experimental Aircraft Association have
in place to reduce the death toll resulting from AirVenture
attendance?

What sort of program does the Experimental Aircraft Association have
in place to reduce the death toll resulting from AirVenture
attendance?

Alot of times, these aren't the sort of things EAA can do anything
about. What can EAA do about a stall/spin on short final? That's been
happening since shortly after the Wright Bros, and I suspect it always
will.
You can make all the rules you want, but showing up unprepared is hard
to prevent. Sanction and punish, sure maybe (but very much NOT likely),
but not prevent.

I just don't fathom how you can fly to this without at least reading
the NOTAM...

One other story told by Jay: apparantly they heard two pilots flying
together on the air-air frequency; one was trying to download the NOTAM
onto their PDA, and then trying to read it to the other pilot...?!?!

Oy vay!

On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 07:44:37 GMT, Larry Dighera
wrote:

On Sun, 23 Jul 2006 22:04:56 -0400, "Morgans"
wrote in ::

It is a rare year that at least 6 don't die either on the way to or on the
way home from Osh.

It's not usually quite that bad and is usually a lot better than
Sun-n'-fun..


That is truly tragic and pathetic. Is that the best airmen can do?

The majority usually do happen some where other than at the field so
we don't hear about them until later.


Some years there are no fatals in the immediate area,
and some years there are several fatals due to airport operations.

I would say they were probably due to pilot incompetence rather than
blame airport operations.

What sort of image do such statistics about airmen conger in the minds
of the lay public?

Probably about the same as they do in mine.

We were all taught stabilized patterns as students, but few go much
beyond that. Fewer yet practice to the point of not only knowing the
edges of the envelope for the planes they fly, but being able to feel
the edge.

Put a pilot who is used to flying a stabilized pattern and carries an
extra 10 knots for comfort on final, five for the kids, five for ma,
and the full gust factor into a line of planes that causes him to get
any where near MCA to stay in line and it's a receipt for disaster.

Now he's flying at unfamiliar airspeeds, has people telling him when
to turn base and final at such slow airspeeds, and he gets rattled
when ever he sees another plane within a 1000 feel let alone 500. Now
he finds planes within a couple hundred feet. Instead of S-turns to
stay clear of the plane in front he slows down more and gets fixated
on the tail of the plane in front and forgets to watch the air speed.
He doesn't even have to cross control on base to final to stall. It's
a wonder more don't end up short of the runway.

As I've said before, this is no place for a pilot who always flies a
stabilized pattern and doesn't know the limitations of the airplane
and the feel of those limitations.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com


What sort of program does the Experimental Aircraft Association have
in place to reduce the death toll resulting from AirVenture
attendance?
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com