About forward slips

On 10/31/06 11:41 PM, in article ,
"Mxsmanic" wrote:

Wizard of Draws writes:

Ahhh, the dreaded "Blue Screen of Death".

I meant an impact with terrain.

Place a few fluffy pillows around your chair and you'll be fine.
--
Jeff 'The Wizard of Draws' Bucchino

Cartoons with a Touch of Magic�
http://www.wizardofdraws.com

More Cartoons with a Touch of Magic�
http://www.cartoonclipart.com

Wizard of Draws wrote in
news:C16EB96E.A3B28%jeff.bucchinoDELETE@DELETEgmai l.com:

On 10/31/06 11:41 PM, in article
, "Mxsmanic"
wrote:

Wizard of Draws writes:

Ahhh, the dreaded "Blue Screen of Death".

I meant an impact with terrain.

Place a few fluffy pillows around your chair and you'll be fine.

I needed this :-)))

Cleared my sinuses big time with my Doc Pepper diverted from my belly!

Allen

On Wed, 01 Nov 2006 22:42:13 +0100, Mxsmanic wrote:

I presume that if I do it correctly, then, there should be no change
in the actual direction of motion of the aircraft, but only a change
in its orientation in the air, right? I haven't achieved that thus
far.

So if I'm going straight in and I do a forward flip, I should be able
to look off to the left out the window and see the runway approaching
me (or to the right, although that might be harder from the left
seat).... [Ref. the video]... I gather that you were actually looking
sideways down at the runway, and not in the direction the axle-mounted
camera was looking?

Yep. Here's another video that should answer most of the above questions:

http://www.bowersflybaby.com/slip3.wmv

Note that the aircraft attitude stays fairly flat. The tail mounting of the
camera does exaggerate the amount of offset, as you can see that my head doesn't
have to move all that much to keep tracking the touchdown point.

The Fly Baby model on MSFS can't, but I always figured that was
my fault. :-)

Or you had automatic rudder coordination turned on (it's the default).

Considering I designed the Fly Baby MSFS model, it's my fault either way. :-)

Actually, the problem is more the limited throw of the yaw control. The Fly
Baby has a very powerful rudder, but the pedals have a fairly long travel. That
makes it easy to input the precise amount of yaw. On the computer, the stick
only wiggles ~10 degrees left and right. I can run the rudder scalars up on the
MSFS config file, but then the rudder control gets too sensitive for normal
operations. Even a set of rudder pedals (older Thrustmasters) didn't give
enough control throw.

BTW, for those who are interested in seeing the complete videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubDOG4E_pXs#GU5U2spHI_4

....uses the external camera positions and

http://www.alexisparkinn.com/photoga...Baby-N500F.wmv

has the shots from the ground plus a little air-to-air. As a side note, look
how much the rudder moves to keep the plane tracking straight as the tail
touches down. Would require some SERIOUS wriggling on a computer control
stick....

Ron Wanttaja

randall g writes:

You were excessively optimistic if you thought nobody would be bothered
by you ...

A great many people are bothered enough to clutter the newsgroup with
useless traffic.

... however you do get plenty of good responses and you know it.

I don't know about plenty, but I do get a few, which is why I stay.

--
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Ron Wanttaja writes:

Yep. Here's another video that should answer most of the above questions:

http://www.bowersflybaby.com/slip3.wmv

Very cool. Your aircraft must be awash in cameras.

It does make it much more clear.

Considering I designed the Fly Baby MSFS model, it's my fault either way. :-)

If you say so. I don't know how the models are implemented
internally.

Actually, the problem is more the limited throw of the yaw control. The Fly
Baby has a very powerful rudder, but the pedals have a fairly long travel. That
makes it easy to input the precise amount of yaw. On the computer, the stick
only wiggles ~10 degrees left and right. I can run the rudder scalars up on the
MSFS config file, but then the rudder control gets too sensitive for normal
operations. Even a set of rudder pedals (older Thrustmasters) didn't give
enough control throw.

The twist rudder on the throttle is definitely a problem with any
aircraft. But it's better than the keyboard.

Would require some SERIOUS wriggling on a computer control
stick....

All rudder movements are difficult with a twisting joystick.

--
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On Thu, 02 Nov 2006 11:07:07 +0100, Mxsmanic wrote:

Ron Wanttaja writes:

Yep. Here's another video that should answer most of the above questions:

http://www.bowersflybaby.com/slip3.wmv

Very cool. Your aircraft must be awash in cameras.

No, just one cheap camera installed in different places on different flights.
It's apparent on the longer versions of the video, as while all three weekends I
shot video were sunny, the Saturday when the camera was mounted on the rudder
was fairly hazy and the other two days weren't.

The whole tale is at...

http://www.bowersflybaby.com/pix/video.html

Ron Wanttaja

I found a description of snap rolls on a model airplane site that
included descriptions of cheated snaps, unloaded snaps, etc. I never
had any concept of any of this and frankly don't ever really want to
try to experience any of it in a full size plane, aerobatic or not.

http://www.rccaraction.com/MA/how_to/snap_roll.asp

Mxsmanic wrote:
Viperdoc writes:

The other thing to remember is that the cross controlled condition in a
forward slip is a perfect setup for entry into an inverted spin or an
outside snap roll, which can be particularly impressive on short final in a
Cherokee.

Okay, just out of curiosity, what do I have to do to enter the
inverted spin or snap roll?

And what is a snap roll, anyway?

--
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Michael Houghton wrote:
Howdy!

In article ,
Mxsmanic wrote:
gatt writes:

Executing a forward slip, for its most basic flight-sim-type purposes,
involves lowering one wing with the aileron and using opposite rudder to
keep the aircraft oriented; it can be dangerous at slow speeds because the
crossed controls create a perfect condition for spin entry on a stall during
short final.

That statement is just flat incorrect. It's the skidding turn that
creates the dangerous condition. Crossed controls are not, per se,
risky. They merely set up a way to dump altitude without picking
up excess speed, or to make the airplane fly somewhat sideways, in
order to maintain alignment with a ground feature in a crosswind.

I worry that it might somehow lead me into danger, but some of the
stuff I've read claims that slips are very unlikely to produce stalls,
unlike skids, which supposedly are known for that. The FAA book even
claims that some aircraft have better stall behavior in a slip, if I
understand it correctly.

That's a pretty reasonably synopsis. Slips are less likely to degenerate
into a spin, while skids are much more risky.

In a skid, you are (ab-)using the rudder to try to yaw the plane more
quickly than you can with the coordinated turn you were in. That causes
outside wing to move faster (and the inside wing slower). If you get
too vigorous, you might slow the inside wing enough to induce a stall.
That causes the inside wing to drop rapidly, leading quickly to a
spin. This is Real Bad if you were trying to hurry that base to final
turn that you got a bit sloppy with...

The inside wing has a higher angle of attack than the
outside wing in a descending turn, and skidding increases that
difference to the point that a stall could become a spin instantly. The
speed difference between wings is minimal. The AOA difference is
dependent on the angle of descent, radius of turn, and the amount of
opposite aileron applied. In the slip, the difference in AOA decreases,
making it a much safer maneuver than it appears to the uninitiated.
I built a special table with several sets of parallel rails
representing the various phases of flight, and a model airplane's wings
set on the rails shows the AOA differences and makes it all really
clear to my students.

Dan