OT - Video Card Question(s)

"Jose" wrote in message
. com...
[re. floppies] Huh? All modern PCs have USB now

To use it, you need a USB device. They are not free. Floppies are just
about free.

Actually, it is not hard to find free USB flash drives. That said, a small
one costs no more than a floppy drive (well, an expensive one like Jay's
proposing to buy, anyway).

And floppies aren't free...they cost on the order of 50 cents each or more.
That's five to ten times as much as a blank CD costs.

As far as drivers go, Windows has the USB storage device drivers built
in.

No it doesn't. Windows 98 is missing lots of drivers, as is 95.

A computer that has a USB controller but does not have USB drivers installed
makes no sense whatsoever. In any case, the fact remains that the drivers
are not specific to the flash drives. The USB flash drives all act as a
standard disk controller, and the standard Windows USB drivers recognize it
as such.

And yes, I encounter these systems all the time in my travels - my wife
uses a 3.11 machine which is fine for what she does (text).

If you have a specific computer that requires the use of a floppy drive to
move data to it, that is one thing. However, it is stupid to generalize
that to a claim that a floppy drive is always (or even often) a useful thing
to have on a brand-new computer.

We are talking about Jay's computer here, not your wife's, or even a
computer that has to operate with your wife's.

Blank CDs cost less than a floppy

... and generally can't be erased and reused like a floppy.

At the price differential, you'd have to be moving a lot of data on a
regular basis before the floppy comes out ahead. For infrequent use, the
read-only nature of CDs is irrelevant (especially given their vastly lower
cost), and for frequent use, floppies are just dumb. If you're moving data
that often, connect the computers with an actual network.

Floppies are still a terrific solution for simple text files (like
Emails).

They are no better a solution than CDs, and frankly when most people want to
move an email message from one computer to another, they EMAIL it.

Again, maybe you have some whacked out, 15-years behind the times situation
in which a floppy drive makes sense. It certainly seems reasonable that if
the rest of your technology is 15 years old, you may need to continue to buy
ancient, obsolete technology in order to continue interoperating with that
15 year old stuff.

But that in no way suggests an answer to the more general question of what a
modern PC needs to have.

Pete

"Jose" wrote in message
m...
...or he's got some profit built into the price.

Not that I think there's necessarily anything wrong with that.

Well, if the contract is "at cost", then there =is= something wrong with
it, especially since Jay's serving as a billboard for him.

What contract? I doubt anyone's signing papers here.

The point is that as long as Jay understands that the "at cost" number is
equivalent to buying the parts retail, and as long as he's okay with that, I
don't see anything fundamentally wrong with the situation. It's between Jay
and his vendor.

Pete

"Peter Duniho" wrote in
:

At least with XP, once you get the OS activated, as long as you never
have to reinstall it and as long as you never install some Microsoft
update that can disable it the way that Vista can be disabled, you are
assured that the operating system will continue to work indefinitely.
With Vista, there is no such guarantee.

There are many reasons I hate copy protection, and product activation in
particular, and this is one of them.

Well, that's kinda exactly what I was afraid of, although it seems like Vista
is the first version to fear...

Hopefully by 2009 these guys will have their act together...

http://www.reactos.com/

"Judah" wrote in message
. ..
Well, that's kinda exactly what I was afraid of, although it seems like
Vista
is the first version to fear...

I dunno...I fear any product that requires activation to be installed.
After all, there's never any guarantee that activation will always be
provided.

That said, yes...the Vista activation feature is a lot scarier than what
we've seen so far.

How much of a hit would I take changing instructors this far in?

I haven't seen any. I've seen cheap ones though. (ten dollars or so
for 64 meg).

And floppies aren't free...they cost on the order of 50 cents each or more.

My last set of floppies was free. I got five hundred.

A computer that has a USB controller but does not have USB drivers installed
makes no sense whatsoever.

Meet Windows 98. I'm not completely being fair - I have used my camera
as a thumb drive, and it requires drivers to be downloaded and installed
on Windows 98 machines.

However, it is stupid to generalize that to a claim that
a floppy drive is always (or even often) a useful thing
to have on a brand-new computer.

I'm not. However I've found that obsolete devices come in handy at the
oddest times, and for those times I'm really glad I have them.

I will admit however to not needing a 5 inch drive for a while (though I
did wish I had one some years back)

frankly when most people want to
move an email message from one computer to another, they EMAIL it.

That was Apple's solution some years back. It was dumb then, it's dumb
now. It requires the internet. Floppies don't.

maybe you have some whacked out, 15-years behind the times

Hey!

Jose
--
"There are 3 secrets to the perfect landing. Unfortunately, nobody knows
what they are." - (mike).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

What contract? I doubt anyone's signing papers here.

A contract doesn't require papers. Would the guy be justifiably upset
if Jay decided... "no contract, I'll just take the ads off the system"?

as long as Jay understands that the "at cost" number is
equivalent to buying the parts retail

I would not have understood that to be the case, unless =his= cost is
retail.

Jose
--
"There are 3 secrets to the perfect landing. Unfortunately, nobody knows
what they are." - (mike).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Jose" wrote in message
news
What contract? I doubt anyone's signing papers here.

A contract doesn't require papers. Would the guy be justifiably upset if
Jay decided... "no contract, I'll just take the ads off the system"?

A verbal contract is extremely hard to contest. Not impossible, granted,
but nearly so. In any case, the point is that my interpretation of the
situation is that this is a gentleman's agreement between two local
businessmen. The exact nature of the arrangement is fluid, but as long as
each individual understands exactly what's going on, I don't think it's
critically important that "at cost" has to really mean just the cost of the
parts (who knows...perhaps the vendor is treating his own time as part of
the cost).

I doubt either party thinks that there's any well-stated contract, and they
probably both understand that if the other reneges on the deal, there's
little avenue for recourse.

The fact is, there are still people who trust each other well enough to
enter into such agreements with little or no legal protection. And it
doesn't just happen in cow towns like Iowa City.

as long as Jay understands that the "at cost" number is equivalent to
buying the parts retail

I would not have understood that to be the case, unless =his= cost is
retail.

Like I said, it depends on how the vendor is interpreting "cost". But
regardless, my point is that the deal is fair as long as Jay understands
what the retail costs of the parts is. Especially given the customer. It's
not like Jay is going to go out and buy the parts himself and put the thing
together. You think these tech-related threads he starts are long now, just
imagine us trying to talk him to the construction of a computer.

Pete

"Jose" wrote in message
m...
How much of a hit would I take changing instructors this far in?

I haven't seen any. I've seen cheap ones though. (ten dollars or so for
64 meg).

Uh...I think your clipboard got messed up.

In any case, $10 is cheap enough to be effectively free for a device that is
for all practical purposes, infinitely reusable. Beyond that, just look at
the Sunday flyers. If you live in any decent sized city, you've got the
usual chain stores, and they often run promotions in which a USB flash drive
is given away with something you have to buy anyway.

There are other ways to get them free, but the real point is that the cost
of the USB drive is negligible. At least as negligible as using a floppy
drive.

And floppies aren't free...they cost on the order of 50 cents each or
more.

My last set of floppies was free. I got five hundred.

If you can point me to a vendor that one can reliably get 500 floppies at no
charge, fine. Otherwise, I fail to see what your unique situation has to do
with it.

A computer that has a USB controller but does not have USB drivers
installed makes no sense whatsoever.

Meet Windows 98. I'm not completely being fair - I have used my camera as
a thumb drive, and it requires drivers to be downloaded and installed on
Windows 98 machines.

You aren't understanding. I know that Windows 98 doesn't come with USB
drivers. But a computer that has a USB device *does* come with USB drivers,
and to not install those drivers is silly. Once those drivers are
installed, you don't need additional drives specific to the make or model of
USB flash drive.

Your camera may indeed have its own unique, custom drivers that you can
install on Windows 98. But if it complies with the standard USB disk
controller specifications, the default USB drivers are sufficient.

However, it is stupid to generalize that to a claim that
a floppy drive is always (or even often) a useful thing to have on a
brand-new computer.

I'm not. However I've found that obsolete devices come in handy at the
oddest times, and for those times I'm really glad I have them.

I have found that obsolete devices only come in handy when dealing with
other obsolete devices. And as I've said, if one can actually anticipate
having to do so, that's fine. But that has nothing to do with whether Jay's
new PC needs a floppy drive, which is what's being discussed here.

frankly when most people want to move an email message from one computer
to another, they EMAIL it.

That was Apple's solution some years back. It was dumb then, it's dumb
now. It requires the internet. Floppies don't.

Huh? Apple has always had networking built in. Connect up the Appletalk
cable and you're good to go. Still, my point is that if you got the email,
you *have* the Internet. The fact that moving that email requires the
Internet is no big deal, since it's assured to be present.

On the receiving end, perhaps that's not the case, but just how important
could it be to move email from a PC with an email account to one without.
More significantly, how often would you really need to do this? If
infrequently, then use a CD. If often, then that PC really needs a network
connection.

Not only do I not move anything among our four computers using a floppy, I
have never felt that using our LAN was in any way an inconvenience, even for
the smallest of files (I think the smallest file I've ever moved was
probably only 200 bytes or so). More importantly, if someone is not in a
situation where they necessarily need to deal with obsolete hardware, then
there's no reason to buy obsolete hardware to go with their new PC.

Pete

If you can point me to a vendor that one can reliably get 500 floppies at no
charge, fine. Otherwise, I fail to see what your unique situation has to do
with it.

Well, as you say, "just look at the Sunday flyers. If you live in any
decent sized city, you've got the usual chain stores, and they often run
promotions in which..." That's how I got mine. CompUSA if I remember
right. Of course it was some five years ago, back when they were "only"
obsolete.

I know that Windows 98 doesn't come with USB
drivers. But a computer that has a USB device *does* come with USB drivers,
and to not install those drivers is silly. Once those drivers are
installed, you don't need additional drives specific to the make or model of
USB flash drive.

If I am travelling, and am faced with a Windows 98 computer, I will not
be able to use my USB device (an Olympus camera), even if other USB
devices are on the system. I will not be able to install software on
somebody else's computer.

I've yet to try it with a real thumb drive though.

Huh? Apple has always had networking built in. Connect up the Appletalk
cable and you're good to go.

One computer's upstairs. The other is downstairs. The third is across
the street. Floppies work. And the internet is hardly "assured to be
present".

More importantly, if someone is not in a
situation where they necessarily need to deal with obsolete hardware, then
there's no reason to buy obsolete hardware to go with their new PC.

I'm not telling Jay what to buy. I'm just saying not to be so quick to
eliminate the older stuff.

Jose
--
"There are 3 secrets to the perfect landing. Unfortunately, nobody knows
what they are." - (mike).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Jose" wrote in message
...
Well, as you say, "just look at the Sunday flyers. If you live in any
decent sized city, you've got the usual chain stores, and they often run
promotions in which..." That's how I got mine. CompUSA if I remember
right. Of course it was some five years ago, back when they were "only"
obsolete.

Well, if you can find a promotion like that today, "free" seems accurate
enough. I had a hard enough time finding any vendor publishing retail
prices for floppies.

In any case, the real costs associated with the floppy aren't the disks.

If I am travelling, and am faced with a Windows 98 computer, I will not be
able to use my USB device (an Olympus camera), even if other USB devices
are on the system. I will not be able to install software on somebody
else's computer.

I've yet to try it with a real thumb drive though.

I doubt you would have any trouble, assuming the Windows 98 computer has the
standard USB drivers installed (and I don't see any reason it wouldn't). In
any case, if you are carrying data around while travelling, a CD is still a
much better option. It's not uncommon to run into a PC these days without a
floppy drive, but one without an optical drive is much less usual.

Huh? Apple has always had networking built in. Connect up the Appletalk
cable and you're good to go.

One computer's upstairs. The other is downstairs. The third is across
the street. Floppies work. And the internet is hardly "assured to be
present".

Neither is it guaranteed that the floppy drive will keep working. Still,
both are reasonably reliable, and there are much better alternatives to a
network (Internet or LAN) than floppy drives.

More importantly, if someone is not in a situation where they necessarily
need to deal with obsolete hardware, then there's no reason to buy
obsolete hardware to go with their new PC.

I'm not telling Jay what to buy. I'm just saying not to be so quick to
eliminate the older stuff.

And I'm saying one should definitely be quick to eliminate the older stuff.
For a small minority of people, there are very specific reasons to maintain
compatibility with obsolete technology. For most people, there is simply no
good reason to bother with a floppy drive, and there are modest reasons to
NOT bother.

Pete