Pilots flying into Oregon must register with the state!?

Known Al Qaeda operatives were buying millions of dollars worth of
these diamonds because they are much easier to smuggle and exchange for
goods anywhere in the world.

So? Diamonds are just a means of exchange - they do not create wealth
for the criminals. The illegality of drugs creates wealth for the
criminals by inflating the value of these drugs.

Our biggest reason for failure in dealing
with terrorists is our lack of imagination.

Non sequitor. The statement may be true, but I don't see how it relates.

Jose
--
There are two kinds of people in the world. Those that just want to
know what button to push, and those that want to know what happens when
they push the button.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Jose wrote:
We live in a representative
republic. If enough people agree with you the law will get changed.
But since the laws are now that illegal drugs are illegal that tells
me that the population wants them that way.

That's overly simplistic. We want =other= people to be restricted,
while we =ourselves= are unrestrained. (Yes, that's overly simplistic
too, but illustrates the point). While we may live in a
representative republic, the distance between the voter and the
lawmaker, on the federal level, is vast.

I happen to agree with the majority on this one because I see
every day that pot and crack have a very negative effect
in the work place.

You put pot and crack in the same sentence. What do you see in the
workplace that has a negative effect, that is the same with pot and
crack (but not with alcohol), that does not derive primarily from the
illegality of the substance in question, and that cannot be addressed
through the expedient of firing people who don't perform?

Jose

I mention those two because that is what I see on drug screens the most
often.

Absenteeism, tardiness, poor work performance. And those are the ones that
don't get someone hurt.

Sure firing them is an answer then you have to replace them and train the
new employee which costs the employer.

Recently, Jose posted:

Known Al Qaeda operatives were buying millions of dollars worth of
these diamonds because they are much easier to smuggle and exchange
for goods anywhere in the world.

So? Diamonds are just a means of exchange - they do not create wealth
for the criminals. The illegality of drugs creates wealth for the
criminals by inflating the value of these drugs.

Why do you think that diamonds don't create wealth for the criminals? Just
the opposite is true, Jose. These diamonds were purchased for peanuts from
folks who essentially stole them, and were then smuggled to countries
where they could get market value for them. That's a much larger margin
than one could get for the equivalent volume of any drug and there is a
much lower likelihood that one will get caught.

Our biggest reason for failure in dealing
with terrorists is our lack of imagination.

Non sequitor. The statement may be true, but I don't see how it
relates.

You provided an excellent example of "how it relates" in your inabililty
to see how diamond smuggling can be lucrative.

Neil

Recently, Jose posted:

"The trafficking of drugs finances the
work of terror, sustaining terrorists," said President Bush in
December 2001. Tough enforcement, the government told the justices,
"is central to combating illegal drug possession."

The criminialization of drugs makes the traffic of drugs able to
support terrorists. So Bush is creating the problem, not solving it.

But you all know that.

I watched a show about "Blood Diamonds" on the History Channel the other
day. Known Al Qaeda operatives were buying millions of dollars worth of
these diamonds because they are much easier to smuggle and exchange for
goods anywhere in the world. Our biggest reason for failure in dealing
with terrorists is our lack of imagination.

Neil

I mention those two because that is what I see on drug screens the most
often.

Alcohol doesn't show up on drug screens, does it?

Absenteeism, tardiness, poor work performance. And those are the ones that
don't get someone hurt.

Do the drugs =cause= tardiness (for exmaple), or is it the employee who
decides he doesn't care enough to come on time? Do you not see the same
effect with alcohol? And ultimately, the problem is absenteeism,
tardiness, poor work performance. It is not drug use. Absenteeism,
tardiness, poor work performance can (and often does) occur without
drugs. Those kind of people should not be working for you no matter
what other vice they have.

Sure firing them is an answer then you have to replace them and train the
new employee which costs the employer.

Yes, and this will encourage the employer to pick better candiates to
begin with. But it is not my argument that firing them is the answer,
but rather, firing them for =poor performance= rather than because they
engage in an activity you consider a vice.

Jose
--
There are two kinds of people in the world. Those that just want to
know what button to push, and those that want to know what happens when
they push the button.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Why do you think that diamonds don't create wealth for the criminals? Just
the opposite is true, Jose. These diamonds were purchased for peanuts from
folks who essentially stole them, and were then smuggled to countries
where they could get market value for them.

Ok, good point, but it is the theft that created the wealth. Now that I
think of it, you make another good point - the intrinsic value of
diamonds is due to their scarcity. Diamonds however are only scarce
because of the diamond cartel that owns the diamond mines. Were all the
diamonds in the storage bins available for purchase, the price would
plummet (and a lot of romantic folk would be upset, one way or another

In the case of diamonds, the owners are creating the shortage. In the
case of drugs, the lawmakers are.

You provided an excellent example of "how it relates" in your inabililty
to see how diamond smuggling can be lucrative.

I didn't fail to see how diamond smuggling can be lucrative. I failed
to see how it is an example of artificial and policital wealth creation.

Jose
--
There are two kinds of people in the world. Those that just want to
know what button to push, and those that want to know what happens when
they push the button.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Jose wrote:
I mention those two because that is what I see on drug screens the
most often.

Alcohol doesn't show up on drug screens, does it?

Absenteeism, tardiness, poor work performance. And those are the
ones that don't get someone hurt.

Do the drugs =cause= tardiness (for exmaple), or is it the employee
who decides he doesn't care enough to come on time? Do you not see
the same effect with alcohol? And ultimately, the problem is
absenteeism, tardiness, poor work performance. It is not drug use.
Absenteeism, tardiness, poor work performance can (and often does)
occur without drugs. Those kind of people should not be working for
you no matter what other vice they have.

Sure firing them is an answer then you have to replace them and
train the new employee which costs the employer.

Yes, and this will encourage the employer to pick better candiates to
begin with. But it is not my argument that firing them is the answer,
but rather, firing them for =poor performance= rather than because
they engage in an activity you consider a vice.

Jose

I've seen many the good employee become utterly useless when they started
using drugs.

As for alcohol, a heavy user of either drugs or alcohol will be a problem.
The difference is a not so heavy user of drugs is also a problem.

As far as firing them for poor performance rather than because they engage
in an activity that is ILLEGAL, I've found that those that are willing to
break one law are more willing to break others.

I've seen many the good employee become utterly
useless when they started using drugs.

Cause and effect? Both effects of the same (other) cause? It makes a
difference. And when you say "drugs", are you lumping marijuana and
coke together? I think that's a mistake in data collection which could
lead to a very costly mistake in policy.

As far as firing them for poor performance rather than because they engage
in an activity that is ILLEGAL, I've found that those that are willing to
break one law are more willing to break others.

Which tells me two things:

1: It is the illegality, not the pharmacology, that bothers you. That
can be changed with the stroke of a pen.

2: Speeders should be treated the same way.

You make a valid point, but there is a difference between something that
is illegal for no good reason, and one that is illegal for a very good
reason. Medical use of marijuana is illegal for no good reason, and to
break the law to supply it to my niece who is suffering from terminal
cancer does not mean that I am "more wiling to break other laws". Well,
maybe it does. Maybe it means I actually =have= a moral compass, rather
than relying on the GPS of law.

Jose
--
There are two kinds of people in the world. Those that just want to
know what button to push, and those that want to know what happens when
they push the button.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 11:33:02 -0500, "Gig 601XL Builder"
wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote in
:


I mention those two because that is what I see on drug screens the most
often.

So you don't screen for alcohol?

It would seem to me that the drunks would be rampant with their drug
of choice available on every street coroner liquor store.

Larry Dighera wrote:
On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 11:33:02 -0500, "Gig 601XL Builder"
wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote in
:


I mention those two because that is what I see on drug screens the
most often.

So you don't screen for alcohol?

It would seem to me that the drunks would be rampant with their drug
of choice available on every street coroner liquor store.

As a matter of fact we do. We have yet to have a positive result on a
pre-hire, random or post accident screen. We have had one positive for
alcohol on a probable cause screen.