U$ Military Medals meaningless junk ...!

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
From: "Phineas Pinkham"




Not talking about a School, numb nuts, we were talking about a
Classification Centre.
Served 24 years active duty, old boy that suffice to ask a question of
the
old foul mouth?



Then how come you know zero about anything? I guess your active duty
wasn't
all that active.
.
It is time to change your Depends, like your mouth and head they are
leaking detritus.

I wonder what the rational was for 25 missions in B-52's? Buff driver can
you clarify?

Its not platform specific, but theater and MAJCOM specific. Ten sorties for an
AM seems to be the norm in most conflicts, but CENTCOM used a "point system"
for Operation SOUTHERN WATCH where I believe you would have had to fly 15
sorties for an AM. My guess for Vietnam was that PACOM (or perhaps since B-52s
were never "chopped" to PACOM, it was SAC's rule) decided that Rolling Thunder,
Freedom Porch and other air operations south of 20 latitude needed 25 sorties
for an AM due to the relatively low risk. I don't know...Ed?


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

Subject: U$ Military Medals meaningless junk ...!
From: "Phineas Pinkham"
Date: 9/1/03 3:30 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
From: "Phineas Pinkham"




Not talking about a School, numb nuts, we were talking about a
Classification Centre.
Served 24 years active duty, old boy that suffice to ask a question of
the
old foul mouth?



Then how come you know zero about anything? I guess your active duty
wasn't
all that active.
.
It is time to change your Depends, like your mouth and head they are
leaking detritus.



Classy. Very classy.

Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

The only combat losses experienced for most of the
Arc Light campaigns were mid-airs between B-52s (arguably a result of
poor judgement).

A little unfair Ed. SAC crews were trained day in and day out on single ship
nuclear ops, then thrown into three ship cells over the Pacific enroute to
Vietnam doing A/R with up to 6 tankers. Much of what they experienced are now
NOTES, CAUTIONS and WARNINGS in B-52 Air Refueling T.O.s. For what its worth,
there were 12 B-52s lost prior to 1972. Out of those 12, four were lost in two
seperate mid-airs, each mid-air happening in or around the Pac Air Refueling
Tracks. Nearly as many (3) were lost to Lightning strikes.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

Subject: U$ Military Medals meaningless junk ...!
From: (BUFDRVR)
Date: 9/1/03 3:38 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

I wonder what the rational was for 25 missions in B-52's? Buff driver can
you clarify?

Its not platform specific, but theater and MAJCOM specific. Ten sorties for
an
AM seems to be the norm in most conflicts, but CENTCOM used a "point system"
for Operation SOUTHERN WATCH where I believe you would have had to fly 15
sorties for an AM. My guess for Vietnam was that PACOM (or perhaps since
B-52s
were never "chopped" to PACOM, it was SAC's rule) decided that Rolling
Thunder,
Freedom Porch and other air operations south of 20 latitude needed 25 sorties
for an AM due to the relatively low risk. I don't know...Ed?


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it
harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"


I wonder how they arrived at those numbers. If we needed 5 for an AM and you
needed 25 does this mean you had 1/5 the losses per sortie relative to the ETO?
Interesting to know how they would have figured it out.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

(BUFDRVR) wrote:

The only combat losses experienced for most of the
Arc Light campaigns were mid-airs between B-52s (arguably a result of
poor judgement).

A little unfair Ed. SAC crews were trained day in and day out on single ship
nuclear ops, then thrown into three ship cells over the Pacific enroute to
Vietnam doing A/R with up to 6 tankers. Much of what they experienced are now
NOTES, CAUTIONS and WARNINGS in B-52 Air Refueling T.O.s. For what its worth,
there were 12 B-52s lost prior to 1972. Out of those 12, four were lost in two
seperate mid-airs, each mid-air happening in or around the Pac Air Refueling
Tracks. Nearly as many (3) were lost to Lightning strikes.

Wasn't trying to be unfair. I've got great respect for the guys who
did the job they were assigned and even greater respect for the ones
who happened to get the call on December 18, 1972.

But, the fact of the matter is that there were no B-52s lost to enemy
action until Linebacker. Long missions, max loads, bad weather, lots
of tanking, all are hazardous in and of themselves.

I hope you'll agree that the guy who did the 180 back into his own
cell in weather probably wasn't using the best of situational
awareness.

We always laughed, in the fighter wings in Thailand that were going
North, that the little birds were doing the strategic mission while
the BUFFs were going tactical in-country. Strange war....


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (ret)
***"When Thunder Rolled:
*** An F-105 Pilot Over N. Vietnam"
*** from Smithsonian Books
ISBN: 1588341038

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
From: "Phineas Pinkham"

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
From: "Phineas Pinkham"
Not talking about a School, numb nuts, we were talking about a
Classification Centre.
Served 24 years active duty, old boy that suffice to ask a question of
the
old foul mouth?



Then how come you know zero about anything? I guess your active duty
wasn't
all that active.
.
It is time to change your Depends, like your mouth and head they are
leaking detritus.



Classy. Very classy.

Arthur Kramer

We all agree on that.

It is such a refreshing departure from your usual reverting to 4 letter
obscenities that only relect upon your limited vocabulary and education.

(ArtKramr) wrote:


You did what you were trained to do. And did it extremely well. It is what the
military is all about. Wear your decorations with pride. They were well earned.

Arthur Kramer

Concur. Good yarn Gordon...
--

-Gord.

. Good yarn...

thanks, bud. Now for one of yours...? Reading flying anecdotes is why I am
here and I wish that all the participants that flew would do the same thing I
did - post the memories you've got, so I can start confusing them with my own.


v/r
Gordon

Subject: U$ Military Medals meaningless junk ...!
From: nt (Gordon)
Date: 9/1/03 7:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

. Good yarn...

thanks, bud. Now for one of yours...? Reading flying anecdotes is why I am
here and I wish that all the participants that flew would do the same thing I
did - post the memories you've got, so I can start confusing them with my
own.


v/r
Gordon


Right. Military flying is what this is all about. Everything else is baby
talk.

Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer