I learned about flying from this, too...

On Feb 6, 6:55 pm, Some Other Guy wrote:
Ken S. Tucker wrote:
More than likely, a superficial runway inspection,
either by the controllers, the pilots or anyone
walking the runway would have noticed that debris
that destroyed the Concorde, and costed a $Billion.

The crash happened at CDG airport, which is the busiest in Europe at over
half a million flights annually. It has four runways:

08L/26R 13,829'
09R/27L 13,780'
08R/26L 8,858'
09L/27R 8,858'

That's about 14 km worth of runway, and there's a flight roughly every 60
seconds. A full walking inspection of just one of those 13,800' runways
would take around 45 minutes, but you'd need to do it every minute or two.
Clearly it wouldn't be practical to insist that the pilots do it since by
the time they've finished, another 40-50 flights would have used the runway.

How about using one of them fella's who's looking at
peoples shoes for bombs, why is that good to do?

Since a shoe inspection guy can't run that fast, you'd need to have
some 20 of them strolling back and forth to ensure constant complete
coverage between each flight.

The debris that did in the Concorde was a thin strip just 3x50cm, which
they probably would have missed anyway since the runways are 150' wide;
more so at the shoulders were presumably your shoe inspectors would be
walking since jetwash isn't the most comfortable thing in the world.
Really you'd need one guy on each side of each runway.

So: 40 shoe inspectors for each 13,800' runway walking back and forth;
80 shoe inspectors total to cover both. We'll discount the 8800' runways
since presumably they won't be in use at the same time as the 13,800' ones.

How about you suggest it to the airport authorities and get back to us
with what they tell you? Or where they tell you to go as might be the case.

First recognize and define the problem.
(The PROBLEM exists, that's proven).

Next we'll solve it. Mr. SOG, I see you're less than
qualified to detail that process, which is a science
and engineering problem, over-all.
Examples, "metal detectors", "optical scanners",
leave the "solution" to the pros. Smarter pilots
need only acknowledge the problem.
Ken

On Feb 6, 1:44 pm, "Ken S. Tucker" wrote:
I almost hit a flock of birds, following rotation,
on my checklist was added, watch for berties.
The runway was well treed on both sides and
my bird must have scared them up, and they
flocked over the runway.

See, there. It was all your fault, because you didn't go and
climb the trees to see if there were birds in them.
Didn't you see the "Climb trees and check for migratory birds" on the
150's checklist? It's there, just like the Concorde's checklist has
the "Walk runway before takeoff" on it.

Dan

wrote:
On Feb 6, 1:44 pm, "Ken S. Tucker" wrote:
I almost hit a flock of birds, following rotation,
on my checklist was added, watch for berties.
The runway was well treed on both sides and
my bird must have scared them up, and they
flocked over the runway.

See, there. It was all your fault, because you didn't go and
climb the trees to see if there were birds in them.
Didn't you see the "Climb trees and check for migratory birds" on the
150's checklist? It's there, just like the Concorde's checklist has
the "Walk runway before takeoff" on it.

Another approach would be to wait for someone
to roll a biplane out of a hanger before taking
off. This is guarantied to attract the berties
away from the active runway.

On Feb 6, 3:24 pm, "Ken S. Tucker" wrote:
More than likely, a superficial runway inspection,
either by the controllers, the pilots or anyone
walking the runway would have noticed that debris
that destroyed the Concorde, and costed a $Billion.

What you're not aware of, apparently, is that airports have
maintenance people in vehicles. These people periodically drive the
runways, when traffic is slow, to check for any dropped items and for
other issues. Airplanes do not regularly lose things, and if they do,
other pilots will usually spot them during their operations and tell
the controllers, who send the maintenance people out to clear them.
I'm an airport manager at a small rural airport, a busy small rural
airport, and in the 12 years I've been doing it we have found:
-One tailwheel steering spring.
-One large bolt washer, non-aircraft, probably off the lawn mowing
equipment. Found at runway edge.
-A few small stones, tracked onto the runway by snowplowing equipment.

And that's it. The bigger hazards, by far, are the wildlife that
wander around or the dorks who are on the runway when they have no
business being out there.

And how, pray tell, would a pilot, or anyone else, spot debris
on runways at night? Airliners do fly at night, you know. All night
long. And often in visibility that's really low. Looking for debris
that is 99.9990% likely not to be there, and if it is it's no big
deal, at night, or in low viz, or both, is a complete and naive waste
of time.

Dan

Hi BIG HEAD, (Dan).

On Feb 7, 12:11 pm, wrote:
On Feb 6, 3:24 pm, "Ken S. Tucker" wrote:

More than likely, a superficial runway inspection,
either by the controllers, the pilots or anyone
walking the runway would have noticed that debris
that destroyed the Concorde, and costed a $Billion.

What you're not aware of, apparently, is that airports have
maintenance people in vehicles. These people periodically drive the
runways, when traffic is slow, to check for any dropped items and for
other issues. Airplanes do not regularly lose things, and if they do,
other pilots will usually spot them during their operations and tell
the controllers, who send the maintenance people out to clear them.
I'm an airport manager at a small rural airport, a busy small rural
airport, and in the 12 years I've been doing it we have found:
-One tailwheel steering spring.
-One large bolt washer, non-aircraft, probably off the lawn mowing
equipment. Found at runway edge.
-A few small stones, tracked onto the runway by snowplowing equipment.

And that's it. The bigger hazards, by far, are the wildlife that
wander around or the dorks who are on the runway when they have no
business being out there.

Wonderful, and based on the BIG HEAD,
he denies the reason for why a Concord
was smashed. Well on that basis Mr. BIG
HEAD will determine future policy based
on his vast experience of finding bad stuff
that get's suck into turbo's, oh wait, agreed.


And how, pray tell, would a pilot, or anyone else, spot debris
on runways at night? Airliners do fly at night, you know. All night
long. And often in visibility that's really low. Looking for debris
that is 99.9990% likely not to be there, and if it is it's no big
deal, at night, or in low viz, or both, is a complete and naive waste
of time.
Dan

Easy Mr. BIG HEAD, recall you have zip ability
to solve the problem, aside from opening them
old eyes of yours, for your little dinky A/C oneway.
That's why a fella like, who is a scientific engineer
can both define the problem AND understand a host
of possible solutions, something the BIG HEAD can't
do in this lifetime.
Think techno.
Ken

"Ken S. Tucker" wrote in message
...
Hi BIG HEAD, (Dan).

On Feb 7, 12:11 pm, wrote:
On Feb 6, 3:24 pm, "Ken S. Tucker" wrote:

More than likely, a superficial runway inspection,
either by the controllers, the pilots or anyone
walking the runway would have noticed that debris
that destroyed the Concorde, and costed a $Billion.

What you're not aware of, apparently, is that airports have
maintenance people in vehicles. These people periodically drive the
runways, when traffic is slow, to check for any dropped items and for
other issues. Airplanes do not regularly lose things, and if they do,
other pilots will usually spot them during their operations and tell
the controllers, who send the maintenance people out to clear them.
I'm an airport manager at a small rural airport, a busy small rural
airport, and in the 12 years I've been doing it we have found:
-One tailwheel steering spring.
-One large bolt washer, non-aircraft, probably off the lawn mowing
equipment. Found at runway edge.
-A few small stones, tracked onto the runway by snowplowing equipment.

And that's it. The bigger hazards, by far, are the wildlife that
wander around or the dorks who are on the runway when they have no
business being out there.

Wonderful, and based on the BIG HEAD,
he denies the reason for why a Concord
was smashed. Well on that basis Mr. BIG
HEAD will determine future policy based
on his vast experience of finding bad stuff
that get's suck into turbo's, oh wait, agreed.


And how, pray tell, would a pilot, or anyone else, spot debris
on runways at night? Airliners do fly at night, you know. All night
long. And often in visibility that's really low. Looking for debris
that is 99.9990% likely not to be there, and if it is it's no big
deal, at night, or in low viz, or both, is a complete and naive waste
of time.
Dan

Easy Mr. BIG HEAD, recall you have zip ability
to solve the problem, aside from opening them
old eyes of yours, for your little dinky A/C oneway.
That's why a fella like, who is a scientific engineer
can both define the problem AND understand a host
of possible solutions, something the BIG HEAD can't
do in this lifetime.
Think techno.
Ken

Walk=Techno?

Al G

Hi Al G.

On Feb 7, 1:27 pm, "Al G" wrote:
"Ken S. Tucker" wrote in ...



Hi BIG HEAD, (Dan).

On Feb 7, 12:11 pm, wrote:
On Feb 6, 3:24 pm, "Ken S. Tucker" wrote:

More than likely, a superficial runway inspection,
either by the controllers, the pilots or anyone
walking the runway would have noticed that debris
that destroyed the Concorde, and costed a $Billion.

What you're not aware of, apparently, is that airports have
maintenance people in vehicles. These people periodically drive the
runways, when traffic is slow, to check for any dropped items and for
other issues. Airplanes do not regularly lose things, and if they do,
other pilots will usually spot them during their operations and tell
the controllers, who send the maintenance people out to clear them.
I'm an airport manager at a small rural airport, a busy small rural
airport, and in the 12 years I've been doing it we have found:
-One tailwheel steering spring.
-One large bolt washer, non-aircraft, probably off the lawn mowing
equipment. Found at runway edge.
-A few small stones, tracked onto the runway by snowplowing equipment.

And that's it. The bigger hazards, by far, are the wildlife that
wander around or the dorks who are on the runway when they have no
business being out there.

Wonderful, and based on the BIG HEAD,
he denies the reason for why a Concord
was smashed. Well on that basis Mr. BIG
HEAD will determine future policy based
on his vast experience of finding bad stuff
that get's suck into turbo's, oh wait, agreed.

And how, pray tell, would a pilot, or anyone else, spot debris
on runways at night? Airliners do fly at night, you know. All night
long. And often in visibility that's really low. Looking for debris
that is 99.9990% likely not to be there, and if it is it's no big
deal, at night, or in low viz, or both, is a complete and naive waste
of time.
Dan

Easy Mr. BIG HEAD, recall you have zip ability
to solve the problem, aside from opening them
old eyes of yours, for your little dinky A/C oneway.
That's why a fella like, who is a scientific engineer
can both define the problem AND understand a host
of possible solutions, something the BIG HEAD can't
do in this lifetime.
Think techno.
Ken

Walk=Techno?
Al G

If someone had taken a binocular scan of the
runway prior to that Concord take-off, he may
have spotted that dangerous debris.
Maybe not that hi-tech, but that peice could
have easily blowed a tire on a 747 as well.

The USN has a procedure to scan the take-off
area for their jets, and I think they are pretty
bright guys, why do they have that procdecure?
Regards
Ken

On Feb 7, 9:43*pm, "Ken S. Tucker" wrote:
Hi Al G.

On Feb 7, 1:27 pm, "Al *G" wrote:





"Ken S. Tucker" wrote in ...

Hi BIG HEAD, (Dan).

On Feb 7, 12:11 pm, wrote:
On Feb 6, 3:24 pm, "Ken S. Tucker" wrote:

More than likely, a superficial runway inspection,
either by the controllers, the pilots or anyone
walking the runway would have noticed that debris
that destroyed the Concorde, and costed a $Billion.

*What you're not aware of, apparently, is that airports have
maintenance people in vehicles. These people periodically drive the
runways, when traffic is slow, to check for any dropped items and for
other issues. Airplanes do not regularly lose things, and if they do,
other pilots will usually spot them during their operations and tell
the controllers, who send the maintenance people out to clear them.
I'm an airport manager at a small rural airport, a busy small rural
airport, and in the 12 years I've been doing it we have found:
-One tailwheel steering spring.
-One large bolt washer, non-aircraft, probably off the lawn mowing
equipment. Found at runway edge.
-A few small stones, tracked onto the runway by snowplowing equipment..

* And that's it. The bigger hazards, by far, are the wildlife that
wander around or the dorks who are on the runway when they have no
business being out there.

Wonderful, and based on the BIG HEAD,
he denies the reason for why a Concord
was smashed. Well on that basis Mr. BIG
HEAD will determine future policy based
on his vast experience of finding bad stuff
that get's suck into turbo's, oh wait, agreed.

*And how, pray tell, would a pilot, or anyone *else, spot debris
on runways at night? Airliners do fly at night, you know. All night
long. And often in visibility that's really low. Looking for debris
that is 99.9990% likely not to be there, and if it is it's no big
deal, at night, or in low viz, or both, is a complete and naive waste
of time.
* * * * Dan

Easy Mr. BIG HEAD, *recall you have zip ability
to solve the problem, aside from opening them
old eyes of yours, for your little dinky A/C oneway.
*That's why a fella like, who is a scientific engineer
can both define the problem AND understand a host
of possible solutions, something the BIG HEAD can't
do in this lifetime.
Think techno.
Ken

* * Walk=Techno?
Al *G

If someone had taken a binocular scan of the
runway prior to that Concord take-off, he may
have spotted that dangerous debris.
Maybe not that hi-tech, but that peice could
have easily blowed a tire on a 747 as well.

The USN has a procedure to scan the take-off
area for their jets, and I think they are pretty
bright guys, why do they have that procdecure?
Regards
Ken- Hide quoted text -


Ken, please don't take this the wrong way, but you are a complete and
utter waste of space.
You are using up precious air that could be put to better use by a
horde of Rats infested with plague carrying fleas. \


Bertie

On Feb 6, 12:04*am, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

Good God.

Yes, He is.

Ricky

On Feb 6, 2:03*am, "Ken S. Tucker" wrote:

NOW THE BIGGY,

review the runway.

That's really interesting. I've never heard of anyone walking the
runway. I've never walked a runway before a flight.
I have done a low approach at turf or grass strips to try & look a
little but walk a runway? Wow. Do you really do this before a flight?
Before every flight?
You mentioned this being a Concorde checklist item. Is this really a
checklist item for the Concorde or other airlines, to review the
runway? How is it done?

Maybe I missed something with the Concorde but how did the plane
"dislodge" something from the runway? I thought there was already
something on the runway that Concorde ran over.
How did the Concorde pilot mess up by running over something on the
runway?

I've sometimes wondered if the Concorde would have been capable of
doing an immediate 180 and landing or shutting down the engine(s) on
the fire side and landing.

Ricky

Ken