Airspeed of military planes

Peter Hovorka wrote:

Also in germany. 250kt below FL 100 except for planes which need to be
flown faster.

Probably the same in most ICAO-States? At least it's the same in
Switzerland as well.

B-1B final is approx 155 +/- depending on weight.


For a 270,000# BUFF its 145 KIAS. Only one I ever memorized, actually wasn't
that difficult. BUFF flies down final at a computed "Best Flare Airspeed" + 10
KIAS. At 270K, best flare is 1/2 270 = 135, add 10 = 145 KIAS. The rest of the
weights I just look at the speed ring on the master fuel gauge.

Boy, it's a mixture of fun and depression to talk about flying when you're not
actively doing it...


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

Nozzles aft, Harrier approach speed will be in the 155kt +/-range. At 20
nozzles and auto flaps(normal for IFR final), you're somewhat slower but to
be honest I don't recall the airspeed because my primary reference was
always AoA. Depending on the type of landing you intend to make, once
you're in the visual environment, you transition to a higher nozzle angle
(60-75 depending...), and in some instances, STOL flaps where the flaps
program automatically as a function of nozzle angle. "On speed" for a
fixed-nozzle slow landing is around 110kts. The *very* slow rolling
landings you occasionaly see are called rolling vertical landings -- 60 kts
ground speed is the target but the transition to that speed will usually be
over the runway, not on approach final.

"Darkwing Duck" wrote in message
...

"Tetsuji Rai" wrote in message
s.com...
Airspeed limitation below 10000ft is usually 250kts unless you have been
authorized by the Administrator. However I guess it's a bit slow for
military fighters. So I am curious how fast military fighters fly in
the
real world. I guess it's very dangerous military aircraft fly much
fast
among civilian planes.



So how fast is short final in a F-14 or whatever? Always wanted to know.

"BUFDRVR" wrote

Boy, it's a mixture of fun and depression to talk about flying when you're not
actively doing it...

Hee. Just an aside, I haven't been near an airplane (or airport) since 1993.

I've never been to a prison or jail, but from what I see from the highway,
the city airports are pretty much layers of armed men, chain-link fences,
and concrete barriers, and the people who enjoy being around them (while
sipping on a $5 cup of coffee).

Although I still like to talk about aircraft, from the good old days when you
could ride your bicycle right up to the plane and the pilot would let you spin
the turbine...

I keep thinking of those movies where people in Bulgaria, or East Germany
go to the airport, which were basically risks to the states control of the
people, and they huddled together while the "agent" looks at their "papers."

"S. Sampson" wrote:
"BUFDRVR" wrote:

Boy, it's a mixture of fun and depression to talk about flying when you're not
actively doing it...

See: http://www.marronair.com/ Granted, they're not B-52's but
like other military and airline pilots have discovered -- owning
and flying your own small, light aircraft pegs the "fun meter" every
time. Satisfaction guaranteed.

Hee. Just an aside, I haven't been near an airplane (or airport) since 1993.

I've never been to a prison or jail, but from what I see from the highway,
the city airports are pretty much layers of armed men, chain-link fences,
and concrete barriers, and the people who enjoy being around them (while
sipping on a $5 cup of coffee).

You can still find thousands of wonderful, small airports with lush,
grassy runways all across the U.S. with none of the above draconian
security measures in place. But in order to find them, ya have to be
willing to explore the Road Less Travelled and get off the beaten path
like Charles Kuralt.

Although I still like to talk about aircraft, from the good old days when you
could ride your bicycle right up to the plane and the pilot would let you spin
the turbine...

I keep thinking of those movies where people in Bulgaria, or East Germany
go to the airport, which were basically risks to the states control of the
people, and they huddled together while the "agent" looks at their "papers."

Gone flyin'

--
Mike Marron
pegasus912 at tampabay dot rr dot com

There's not many weight-shift trikes in Oklahoma (where the wind
comes whistling down the planes -- er, plains)...

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Marron"

See: http://www.marronair.com/ Granted, they're not B-52's but
like other military and airline pilots have discovered -- owning
and flying your own small, light aircraft pegs the "fun meter" every
time. Satisfaction guaranteed.

"S. Sampson" wrote:
"Mike Marron" wrote:

See: http://www.marronair.com/ Granted, they're not B-52's but
like other military and airline pilots have discovered -- owning
and flying your own small, light aircraft pegs the "fun meter" every
time. Satisfaction guaranteed.

There's not many weight-shift trikes in Oklahoma (where the wind
comes whistling down the planes -- er, plains)...

High wind speeds are common throughout the U.S. and are not
indicative solely to Oklahoma or the plains states. The reason why
there aren't many trikes in your neck of the woods is simply because
there aren't many people there, relatively speaking.

Just to compare and contrast, the venerable Cessna 152 (which I
have flown more than 700 hrs. while giving primary flight instruction)
has a max. recommended crosswind component of 12 kts. whereas
my trike has a max crosswind component of 14 kts.

Trikes were designed for "big air."

"IBM" wrote in message
...

Back in 1968 my dad took us to Disneyland.
We flew in to LAX and had some time before the bus left for our
hotel.
I wandered along outside the terminal and was watching the aircraft.
Saw a 747 in action for the first time. I figured it was taxiing into
position ... then it rotated.


I think your family trip was a bit later than that. First flight of the
B747 was February 9, 1969, it entered service in January 1970.

You're right Frijoles, in the Bone the correct answer for "What airspeed do
you fly on final" is "I don't know/care. I'm flying 7 AoA as required by
the Dash One". There is however, a chart of airspeed and gross weights that
every pilot has and, IAW the Landing Checklist, every final must have an
airspeed computed.

JB

"Frijoles" wrote in message
ink.net...
Nozzles aft, Harrier approach speed will be in the 155kt +/-range. At 20
nozzles and auto flaps(normal for IFR final), you're somewhat slower but
to
be honest I don't recall the airspeed because my primary reference was
always AoA. Depending on the type of landing you intend to make, once
you're in the visual environment, you transition to a higher nozzle angle
(60-75 depending...), and in some instances, STOL flaps where the flaps
program automatically as a function of nozzle angle. "On speed" for a
fixed-nozzle slow landing is around 110kts. The *very* slow rolling
landings you occasionaly see are called rolling vertical landings -- 60
kts
ground speed is the target but the transition to that speed will usually
be
over the runway, not on approach final.

"Darkwing Duck" wrote in message
...

"Tetsuji Rai" wrote in message
s.com...
Airspeed limitation below 10000ft is usually 250kts unless you have
been
authorized by the Administrator. However I guess it's a bit slow for
military fighters. So I am curious how fast military fighters fly in
the
real world. I guess it's very dangerous military aircraft fly much
fast
among civilian planes.



So how fast is short final in a F-14 or whatever? Always wanted to know.

Great job looking up the applicable FAR's John. I remember that particular
para very well.

I got in a ****ing contest with the SAC guys while the Chief of Bomber
Stan/Eval early in the ops life of the B-1B over 5.1.4.2 Para (f). The Bone
has/had a Dash One recommended airspeed of 250 to 275 KIAS on downwind.
According to para f, we'd have to fly at 250 kts. Well, that's a
particularly tough airspeed to fly because at 240 if any throttle is less
than vertical, below 10,000 MSL, and the flaps aren't extended, you get the
effing warning horn blaring in your ears. So how tough is it to fly 250 and
stay away from 240? Damn tough it turned out, in the Bone. It's
instruments are very sensitive to wind gusts at those speeds with a clean
downwind configuration and in west texas you live with relatively strong,
gusty winds all the time. So the fricking horn was always, momentarily,
beeping at you. Additionally, before anyone even cared about para f, the
initial cadre of guys going through instructor school just decided they
would fly 270 on downwind, keeping just below the max, 'cuz who wanted to
fly a slow 250? A real tempest in a teapot as I remember, but I had to
fight with these guys because I wasn't enforcing the speed requirements, for
the wing, as described in para f.

JB

"John R Weiss" wrote in message
news:iHBQb.115054$nt4.462505@attbi_s51...
"Ed Rasimus" wrote...

Things have undoubtedly changed since my last military flight, but the
applicable section of AFR 60-16 which was the governing regulation on
flight operations was that the max airspeed below 10,000 feet MSL was
250 KIAS unless the aircraft operating manual required higher. "We
don' need no steenkin' waivers."

The Navy version is OPNAVINST 3710.7. The latest version I have is .7S,
dated
15 Nov 2001:

"1.2.3 Federal Aviation Regulations (FAR).

"Naval aircraft shall be operated in accordance with applicable provisions
of
FAR, Part 91, except:

. . .

"b. Where exemptions or authorizations issued to the Department of the
Navy/Department of Defense permit deviation from FAR.
Exemptions/authorizations
currently on file that allow deviation from FAR, Part 91.

"(1) Section 91.117 (Aircraft Speed). Operation of naval aircraft at
speeds
in excess of limits imposed by section 91.117 shall be governed by
paragraph
5.1.4 of this instruction."


The pertinent section of 5.1.4 is:

"5.1.4.2 Policy. In accordance with FAA authorization, flight operations
below
10,000 feet MSL at an indicated airspeed in excess of 250 knots are
authorized
under the following conditions:

"a. Within restricted areas.

"b. Within military operations areas.

"c. When operating on DOD/FAA mutually developed and published routes.

"d. When operating on DOD-developed and DOD-published VR routes. Such
routes
shall be established for specific missions and used only by designated
units
when the provisions of a through c above will not accommodate the required
national defense mission. Routes shall be developed and published in
accordance
with DOD/FAA mutually developed criteria.

"e. When operating within large-scale exercises or on short-term
special
missions approved by commanders listed in paragraph 5.1.4.3. Such
exercises or
missions may be authorized provided that coordination is effected to
ensure
awareness on the part of the nonparticipating flying public.

"f. If the airspeed required or recommended in the aircraft NATOPS
manual to
maintain safe maneuverability is greater than the maximum speed described
in
FAR, Part 91.117, the aircraft may be operated at that speed. Where the
required
or recommended speed is given as a range, the lower part of the speed
range
consistent with good operating practice should be used. The primary
purpose of
this provision is to accommodate climbs, descents, and terminal area
operations
and shall not be used to circumvent the provisions of sub-paragraphs
above.
Under no circumstance will this safe maneuverability provision be
construed as
authorization for individual pilots or mission commanders to conduct other
flights below 10,000 feet in excess of 250 knots."