report runway incursion non-towered airport?

I *suspect* that uncontrolled fields
tend to attract the less active pilots, more intimidated by radio
work, who might not be as "on the ball" as they should be.

I'm not convinced that uncontrolled means "less active" pilots. Betcha
it's just more rural, and there is the same mix of active and inactive
pilots.

Jose
--
Nothing is more powerful than a commercial interest.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

True story. The other day I was completing leg #1 of my solo cross
country for my Private Pilot Certificate. I was preparing to land at my
home airport, a class D at Opa-Locka (KOPF). I called the tower,
entered the airspace, and was cleared to land on 9L. A couple of
minutes later I hear that a Coast Guard jet was cleared to land on 9L.
Now, I was doing 80-90 knots before I deployed flaps or started my
prelanding checklist. I think jets fly just a bit faster than that. I
got a little nervous that we were both cleared to land and he obviously
wasn't in front of me.

I looked around the airspace trying to find the jet. I know Class D
doesn't provide radar separation, but the tower had always advised me
of traffic before. And besides, this jet was probably still over the
Everglades and made a call from afar. WRONG! I hear on the radio, 40U
immediate right turn, cleared to land on 9R. When I turned south to
intercept the 9R centerline, I saw the jet pretty darn close to me on
final for 9L. What ever happened to the right of way, me being the
lower airplane and all?

I've never had any of these problems at an uncontrolled despite what
seems to be more traffic and CTAF frequencies from multiple airports
colliding. These kind of things are really an eye-opener, and I can
see how people tend to get too comfortable in Class D.

Jay Honeck wrote:
Totally agree. I'll take uncontrolled over non-radar Class Delta,
any
day.


Do you think the problem is the tower, or the fact that they tend
to have
more traffic?

I think it's a combination of factors.

Mostly I think it's a problem with controllers who *think* they know
where
the planes are, based on (often erroneous) pilot position reports,
combined
with the limitations of what a guy can see with binoculars.

When you've got a guy directing traffic who has a faulty mental
picture of
the traffic in the airspace -- often through no fault of his own --
you've
got a recipe for trouble.

And you often get it, in my experience.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

To the original post - ACHE EEE ELLL ELLL NO!

"Tony Cox" wrote in message
k.net...
"Dave Stadt" wrote in message
. com...

"Tony Cox" wrote in message
ink.net...

At least in class D, everyone is *supposed* to be on the radio,
although
of course vigilance is always necessary. I think what you are really
saying is that danger goes up as the traffic density increases, and
class
D
tends to be busier than uncontrolled fields. I'd take a class D early
in
the
morning when no one is around any day!

The non towered airport I fly out of (home base for 350 + aircraft)is
busier
than most Class D airports, has 6 runways with 3 frequently in use at
one
time, has a ton of NORDO aircraft and is much better behaved than a lot
of
class D airports I have been to. Most close call or worse horror
stories
I
have experienced and heard involved someone in a tower with a radio and
no
radar.

Interesting, isn't it? On the one hand, being "uncontrolled"
will hopefully put the fear of God into pilots so they are more
vigilant (yes, I know that being "controlled" shouldn't make a
difference). On the other, I *suspect* that uncontrolled fields
tend to attract the less active pilots, more intimidated by radio
work, who might not be as "on the ball" as they should be.

I suspect what you suspect is totally wrong.

"GEG" wrote in message
...
I've observed at our local airport, when the local airport manager and
some flight instructors pointed it out, how the MD State Police and
Customs helicopters don't report positions when they fly past the airport.
They have these cynical statements like, "I'm still waiting for the day
when they call in their position . . ." and others.

I guess these "officials" are just too consumed with other stuff to worry
about GA pilots safety. Maybe they listen but just go about their
business.

Is this common in other places?


I had a similar experience at Stead, NV.
I was picking up my Dad.
I saw a helicopter sitting on the active runway.
I called on downwind...no response.
I called on base...no response.
I called on final...no response...helicopter still sitting there.
I made a call that I was "going around to wait for the helicopter to get off
the runway".
To which they replied, "we'll take off parallel to the runway".
It took off, and I landed.

As I came close to it, I noticed it was Nevada Highway Patrol.
Kind of miffed, and being the smart-ass that I am, I called "you gonna give
me a ticket for taxi-ing too fast?".

Guess what...no response.

Not sure what the deal is with these guys.
They were just practicing patterns.
You'd think they could extend the same courtesy as the rest of us.

Adam
N7966L
Beech Super III

Joe Johnson wrote:

"Stefan" wrote in message
...


I remember my first landing at a controlled airport with heavy iron.

Hi Stefan. I've never piloted heavy iron, so feel free to adjust the

Me neither. I didn't mean "landing... with heavy iron" but "airport with
heavy iron". I should have written "airport where also heavy iron land".
This adjustes the numbers. The moment I made the call I still had 15 to
20 seconds to touch down.

That said, I am aware that it makes a big difference whether I can speak
to somebody who sais "I've seen you, don't bother", be it a tower or the
other plane, or I have no contact and don't know what will happen next.

Stefan

Joe Johnson wrote:

cleared a plane for takeoff on a crossing runway; the timing was such that
our paths would have crossed as I was on downwind for my runway. Now I knew

Now that is scary. The tower shouldn't do this, even if it's allowed, or
at least warn you (both).

Stefan

"Stefan" wrote in message
...
Joe Johnson wrote:

cleared a plane for takeoff on a crossing runway; the timing was such
that
our paths would have crossed as I was on downwind for my runway. Now I
knew

Now that is scary. The tower shouldn't do this, even if it's allowed, or
at least warn you (both).

Stefan

Agreed. She even had the nerve to say, "maintain visual separation" after
we both maneuvered to avoid a collision.

Did you fly for Swissair (.ch email address, Zurich in another post)? My
first flight on a jet was on a 707 as a 14 year old accompanying my parents
to Europe. My favorite legs were JFK-ZRH and ZRH-JFK, and I loved Zurich.

"Joe Johnson" wrote in message
m...

"Stefan" wrote in message
...
Joe Johnson wrote:

cleared a plane for takeoff on a crossing runway; the timing was such
that
our paths would have crossed as I was on downwind for my runway. Now
I
knew

Now that is scary. The tower shouldn't do this, even if it's allowed, or
at least warn you (both).

Stefan

Agreed. She even had the nerve to say, "maintain visual separation" after
we both maneuvered to avoid a collision.

Best solution would have been for controller to hold departing traffic until
you were midfield downwind, or put you on left or right (opposite of
standard for the runway you were using) so they would not ever cross your
path.

Nor-DOH!