Repercussions for people outside New Orleans

In article ,
"Dan Luke" wrote:
The people still struggling to make repairs from hurricanes from the
past 3 years, ain't living off of a gov'nment teet. And lots of them
are 50 miles or more from any coast... It took me over 5 months to
have my roof and fence replaced and that was with insurance and my own
money. Lots of people can't afford that luxury...

Isn't it wonderful that we dumbasses living down here are able to
benefit from the wisdom of all the smart people in the rest of the
country?


Isn't it wonderful that you who live down there are able to demonstrate
your ignorance toward the impact natural disasters have on other parts
of the country?

I live in the mid-atlantic states, and we experienced severe flooding,
damage and destruction as a result of the residual rains of hurricane
Ivan last year. Communities have not yet fully recovered. However,
very few lost their lives despite the fact that the massive flooding up
here was in no way anticipated.



JKG

"Jay Honeck" wrote:
...
Can anyone say "Regulatory Insanity"? That industry
can't fart without
filling out reams of EPA paperwork, in triplicate. And
each one of those
forms is filled out by a very highly paid person -- that
you and I are
directly subsidizing at the pump.


OK, so say Exxon Mobil's U.S. sales are $100 billion So,
with the salaries of those few people in the numerator, what
effect on pump prices do you compute?

Fred F.

In article ,
Darrel Toepfer wrote:
On another note, anyone who lives near the ocean in a city that's 18
feet below sea level is living on borrowed time until the next disaster.
If businesses were refused insurance and government aid for disasters
such as this, and the poor were forced to work for a living, no one (or
very few) would live in areas like New Orleans because the financial
risk would be too great. Since the government swoops in to cover much
of the financial loss, there's less at risk for the individual, and
lives are needlessly lost.

The people still struggling to make repairs from hurricanes from the
past 3 years, ain't living off of a gov'nment teet. And lots of them are
50 miles or more from any coast... It took me over 5 months to have my
roof and fence replaced and that was with insurance and my own money.
Lots of people can't afford that luxury...


That's not my point. There are catastrophic events that happen no
matter where you live, but the incidence and severity of catastrophic
events are markedly higher along the southeastern/gulf coast. If there
was little or no government money and insurers refused to cover for
hurricane damage, chances are good that the population density in these
large cities would not be at risk because there would be no reason for
folks to live there... there would be very small economies.

The "refugee" situation in New Orleans is largely a result of socialist
government policies that permit large numbers of people to live in
poverty.




JKG

Incredible. You have actually argued that gross pollution of the
Great Lakes was acceptable.

As for who is a fool and who isn't, your recent posts haver settled
that matter for me.

His intense haterd for anyone who gives a crap about the environment seems
to be turning him into a blathering idiot.

Jay, quit whining already. Maybe you an relax by filing the air with lead
deposits.

On 2005-09-02, Jay Honeck wrote:
Now that's just hyperbole, sorry. You're not all dead economically - far
from it.

True enough.

But this event will have a devastating impact on our economy, thanks largely
to incredibly poor governance.

Devastating? Hardly. Perhaps to the poor sods stuck in the affected
region, but not to the rest of the country. The US economy is a lot more
resilient than you give it credit for.

If your unemployment rate goes above 10% as a direct consequence of
Katrina and the events surrounding it, I will personally come to Iowa
and buy you a beer. I don't think I'll be forking out for a
transatlantic airfare to do that any time soon.

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

I think the biggest issue here is what is the cause of the heating up. Most
climatologists say it is the CO2, but people in other fields have noted that
the earth goes through this all the time, heating and cooling.

In the 60's and 70's they were telling us to prepare for another ice age.
Now it is global warming.

The truth is we can't control the elements, as much as we would like to
pretend we can. Time and money invested in NO to keep the river there, thus
the industry means that we must accept the problems we create.

When Cyrus diverted the waters of Babylon, the river could no longer support
the city. The people moved on and the city disappeared.

"Jonathan Goodish" wrote:

The "refugee" situation in New Orleans is largely a result of socialist
government policies that permit large numbers of people to live in
poverty.

What's the alternative? Would you prefer even stronger socialist policies to
subsidize them out of poverty?

--
Dan
C-172RG at BFM

"john smith" wrote in message
. ..
"john smith" wrote in message
My wife came home from work yesterday and told me that a very large
supply of gasoline the company she works for has been holding in reserve
for corporate operations has been confiscated by the federal government.

Gig 601XL Builder wrote:
Could we have some details on this statement like who your wife works
for? If not this is the kind of fear mongering that will make things go
from bad to worse.

I will not divulge that information.
I haven't seen that the information has been made public as yet.

Well then john at this point we'll just have to believe your full of crap.

No.. New refineries have not been built because it is cheaper to increase
the capacity of existing ones. These retrofits are subject to all the
enviornmental regulation that a new refinery would be subjet to.

Mike
MU-2

wrote in message
oups.com...
Mike Rapoport wrote:
HELLO!!! ARE YOU LISTENING JAY???

Where do you get this BS?

IT IS NOT IMPOSSIBLE TO BUILD NEW REFINERIES.

sorry for shouting.

Mike
MU-2

True, it's not physically impossible to build a new refinery here in
the US, but it's nearly financially and enviromentally impossible. EPA
regs and enviromental studies and all the paperwork that has to be
accomplished and signed off prior to even designing the plant has
pretty well made new construction a non-starter since the late 70's.

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:duXRe.323227$xm3.46758@attbi_s21...
As I understand it, refining is actually a pretty low-margin business,
which tends to discourage investing in one iota more capacity than you
can sell tomorrow.

Right -- and why do you suppose that is? It certainly didn't used to
be.

Let's see. The price of crude is sky high. Oil company profits are sky
high. Yet oil refining is a low-margin business. Hmm.... What's going
on here?

Can anyone say "Regulatory Insanity"? That industry can't fart without
filling out reams of EPA paperwork, in triplicate. And each one of those
forms is filled out by a very highly paid person -- that you and I are
directly subsidizing at the pump.


Jay, I enjoy your trip and event reports but keep your job as an inkeeper.
You won't make it as a securities analyst. The regulatory paperwork burden
isn't even a rounding error to the energy industry.



So, in my mind the high price of gas is the best way to spur
conservation. The government could mandate things but all of us as
individuals will figure out better and cheaper ways on our own. I would
not support a tax increase however, because I don't support increasing
the size of government, period.

True enough. But what a stupid time to have this happen, when there's a
real surplus of oil on the market.
--

Yes and very true. We had the prefect opportunity five years ago when the
CAFE standards were scheduled for an increase but our brilliant new
president decided not of implement them. If he had, about 80% of the US
vehicle fleet would be getting a couple more MPG which, as it turns out,
would exactly match the reduced gasoline output from Katrina.


Mike
MU-2