Pathetic Pilot Salaries

Hi,

I am a 35 year old software programmer thinking about a possible
career change into aviation. I am currently working on my PPL.
I've come to know some pilots who are currently flying for ASA and
Comair. Both of them made UNDER 17,000.00 last year. They are both
young guys without families, homes,etc.. so it's a bit easier for
them to ride this through. Anyhow, since I haven't made up my mind
yet, I would love to hear from any of you who have been in a similar
situation. Especially if you are around my age, made the switch from a
previous career, are married, have children and a mortgage. You get my
point. How do you pay continue to pay the bills? I will obviously take
a huge hit salary speaking, but I was shocked at how low the starting
salaries are!! With my wife, children and mortgage, I could qualify
for food stamps on that kind of pay. Also, since that would put my
family below the poverty level, would I even have to pay income tax?
Not to mention I will also have to make payments on student loans if
I choose to go ahead with this.

My CFI tells me to avoid the regionals at all costs. He suggests
flying corporate, but after some research the starting salaries for a
corporate pilot seem to be just as low. He also said that in a few
years there will be a pilot shortage. If there is a pilot shortage in
3-5 years, what does this actually mean for newly rated commercial
pilots who are looking for their first job? If anyone has any thoughts
I would love to hear them. Thanks in advance!

Vic

In a previous article, (Vic) said:
I've come to know some pilots who are currently flying for ASA and
Comair. Both of them made UNDER 17,000.00 last year. They are both

You know what they say: the only way to make a small fortune in aviation
is to start with a large one.


--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
Home pages are the pet rock of the 90s. They all have them, they all think
they're very cute. But in a few years they're going to look back and be
pretty embarrassed. -- Kim Alm

Paul Tomblin opined

In a previous article, (Vic) said:
I've come to know some pilots who are currently flying for ASA and
Comair. Both of them made UNDER 17,000.00 last year. They are both

You know what they say: the only way to make a small fortune in aviation
is to start with a large one.

And know when to stop.


-ash
Cthulhu for President!
Why vote for a lesser evil?

On 27 Aug 2004 06:02:10 -0700, Vic wrote:
Hi,

I am a 35 year old software programmer thinking about a possible
career change into aviation. I am currently working on my PPL.
I've come to know some pilots who are currently flying for ASA and
Comair. Both of them made UNDER 17,000.00 last year. They are both
young guys without families, homes,etc.. so it's a bit easier for
them to ride this through. Anyhow, since I haven't made up my mind
yet, I would love to hear from any of you who have been in a similar
situation. Especially if you are around my age, made the switch from a
previous career, are married, have children and a mortgage. You get my
point. How do you pay continue to pay the bills? I will obviously take
a huge hit salary speaking, but I was shocked at how low the starting
salaries are!! With my wife, children and mortgage, I could qualify
for food stamps on that kind of pay. Also, since that would put my
family below the poverty level, would I even have to pay income tax?
Not to mention I will also have to make payments on student loans if
I choose to go ahead with this.

My CFI tells me to avoid the regionals at all costs. He suggests
flying corporate, but after some research the starting salaries for a
corporate pilot seem to be just as low. He also said that in a few
years there will be a pilot shortage. If there is a pilot shortage in
3-5 years, what does this actually mean for newly rated commercial
pilots who are looking for their first job? If anyone has any thoughts
I would love to hear them. Thanks in advance!


My understanding is that switching jobs in commercial aviation is
hell, as well. From what I've read, because of all of the byzantine
seniority rules, even if you've managed to move up the ladder at
airline A for 15 years, if you decide to go to airline B... you start
right at the bottom again. With the corresponding drop in pay.

Personally, I prefer working in IT, where the surest way to get
a huge pay increase is simply to threaten to quit. ;-)

- Rich

user wrote:

snip
Personally, I prefer working in IT, where the surest way to get
a huge pay increase is simply to threaten to quit. ;-)

Threatening to quit works until you are about 35 years old. Maybe a bit
longer if you walk on water. But later in life you can expect to be
pushed out in favor of younger, technology-current engineers.

But of course, ATPs have to retire at 60, and Air Traffic Controllers at
56. At least they know what to expect and can prepare for it.

In a previous article, "William W. Plummer" said:
user wrote:

snip
Personally, I prefer working in IT, where the surest way to get
a huge pay increase is simply to threaten to quit. ;-)

Threatening to quit works until you are about 35 years old. Maybe a bit
longer if you walk on water. But later in life you can expect to be
pushed out in favor of younger, technology-current engineers.

There is no hard and fast rule that says you can't stay technology-current
as you age. I started off doing FORTRAN on mainframes, went to C and
Unix, then C++ and Unix, and here I am at 44 doing Java on Linux, making
50% more than I was making when I was 35. And every step up the ladder
was done by identifying what I wanted to do next and teaching myself.

What's the next technology trend? I don't know, but I'm damn sure I'm
going to teach it to myself before Java on Linux jobs dry up. Although I
have a nagging suspicion that my next "technology" will be "how to manage
a team of programmers in India to make sure that what they produce isn't a
giant cluster **** like every other outsourcing project I've seen".

--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
"What we perceive as `God' is simply a by-product of our search for God."
- G'Kar.

Paul Tomblin wrote:

In a previous article, "William W. Plummer" said:

user wrote:

snip

Personally, I prefer working in IT, where the surest way to get
a huge pay increase is simply to threaten to quit. ;-)

Threatening to quit works until you are about 35 years old. Maybe a bit
longer if you walk on water. But later in life you can expect to be
pushed out in favor of younger, technology-current engineers.


There is no hard and fast rule that says you can't stay technology-current
as you age. I started off doing FORTRAN on mainframes, went to C and
Unix, then C++ and Unix, and here I am at 44 doing Java on Linux, making
50% more than I was making when I was 35. And every step up the ladder
was done by identifying what I wanted to do next and teaching myself.

What's the next technology trend? I don't know, but I'm damn sure I'm
going to teach it to myself before Java on Linux jobs dry up. Although I
have a nagging suspicion that my next "technology" will be "how to manage
a team of programmers in India to make sure that what they produce isn't a
giant cluster **** like every other outsourcing project I've seen".

I agree and have a very parallel career to yours. But at about your
age, I got into management. And wound up doing DoD acquisitions work.
Technical work is much more satisfying (like flying!), but doesn't pay
as well and you don't get the management bonuses. I'm partially retired
now and can't quite justify purchasing "Dot Net" and taking classes.

And you are right about labor in India. Once they master the
technology, we will be the customer and will completely lack the ability
to compete.

On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 14:33:05 GMT, William W. Plummer wrote:
Paul Tomblin wrote:

In a previous article, "William W. Plummer" said:

user wrote:

snip

Personally, I prefer working in IT, where the surest way to get
a huge pay increase is simply to threaten to quit. ;-)

Threatening to quit works until you are about 35 years old. Maybe a bit
longer if you walk on water. But later in life you can expect to be
pushed out in favor of younger, technology-current engineers.


There is no hard and fast rule that says you can't stay technology-current
as you age. I started off doing FORTRAN on mainframes, went to C and
Unix, then C++ and Unix, and here I am at 44 doing Java on Linux, making
50% more than I was making when I was 35. And every step up the ladder
was done by identifying what I wanted to do next and teaching myself.

What's the next technology trend? I don't know, but I'm damn sure I'm
going to teach it to myself before Java on Linux jobs dry up. Although I
have a nagging suspicion that my next "technology" will be "how to manage
a team of programmers in India to make sure that what they produce isn't a
giant cluster **** like every other outsourcing project I've seen".

I agree and have a very parallel career to yours. But at about your
age, I got into management. And wound up doing DoD acquisitions work.
Technical work is much more satisfying (like flying!), but doesn't pay
as well and you don't get the management bonuses. I'm partially retired
now and can't quite justify purchasing "Dot Net" and taking classes.


That really depends where you work. Even after the dot-com bust,
you can find good development jobs that pay in the high 5/low
6 figures, and include substantial bonuses. Granted, they're not
easy to find, but they are there.


And you are right about labor in India. Once they master the
technology, we will be the customer and will completely lack the ability
to compete.

Depends on the field. With one glaring exception, I've always worked
at manufacturing companies that are in need of constant systems changes
on the shop floor. When it comes to that kind of work, you need IT
people who can regularly walk around the machines on a regular basis,
and see what needs to be done. You're not going to get rapid and
relevant suggestions from a guy 6000 miles away who can't put
his hands on the binder, for example. But you'll going to have to
be the kind of developer who doesn't mind crawling around and getting
dirty, to make sure you're doing the right thing for what your
company needs. And if you're the sort of person who develops
only systems that don't need a hands-on-approach - well, all I can
say is, you'd better have some money saved up for a career change
10 years from now.

- Rich

And you are right about labor in India. Once they master the
technology, we will be the customer and will completely lack the ability
to compete.

Fortunately or unfortunately, they don't seem to be moving towards that
point very quickly. The thing about a lot of them is that they are into
the field solely for the money and thus lack passion for the art. It
shows, in my experience.

William W. Plummer ) wrote:
:
: And you are right about labor in India. Once they master the
: technology,
:

Make that "technologies", including medicine, pharmaceutical,
biotechnology, et.al.

:
: we will be the customer and will completely lack the ability to
: compete.
:

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...how/786093.cms
Now comes Knowledge Process Outsourcing - The Economic Times

"ECONOMICTIMES.COM [ THURSDAY, JULY 22, 2004 12:18:08 AM ]

If you thought outsourcing is limited to just tech jobs, you need to
run an update program. The next big wave is going to involve the
outsourcing of high-skill or 'knowledge' jobs such as accountants,
lawyers, engineers and doctors to foreign countries.

According to Slicon.com, knowledge process offshoring, or KPO will
rule the future and will grow faster than the much talked about BPO.
If you are still wondering what this KPO means, here's an example. A
law firm outsourcing basic case research to trainee lawyers or legal
experts in a foreign country or may be a pharmaceutical company
conducting R&D for new drugs in offshore facilities..."


http://inhome.rediff.com/money/2004/aug/26bpo.htm
'All US tech jobs will move out in a decade'

"'All US tech jobs will move out in a decade'
August 26, 2004 12:04 IST

Every technology-related job in the United States would be moved to
overseas destinations within a decade as relocation of jobs to
countries like India would enable firms to cut costs, a top American
businesswomen has said.

"That is a scary concept," Kathy Brittain White, who was named the
Forbes Top 25 American Businesswomen in 2001, said.

"If something is not done in 10 years, every technology job will be
overseas," White, a former CIO of Cardinal Health Inc, said on
Wednesday..."


--Jerry Leslie
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