This is killing me!!!

"Allen" writes:
I looked it up in Webster's and the OED. They seem to agree that the
common usage of each word is slightly different, but they are synonyms
for all intensive purposes.


perhaps "for all intended puposes"?

Urk! I surrender! :-)

Chris
--
Chris Colohan Email: PGP: finger
Web: www.colohan.com Phone: (412)268-4751

"Allen" wrote in message
. com...

"Chris Colohan" wrote in message
.. .
I looked it up in Webster's and the OED. They seem to agree that the
common usage of each word is slightly different, but they are synonyms
for all intensive purposes.


perhaps "for all intended puposes"?

Actually, the phrase is "for all intents and purposes".

--Gary

"Allen" wrote in message
. com...

"Chris Colohan" wrote in message
.. .
I looked it up in Webster's and the OED. They seem to agree that the
common usage of each word is slightly different, but they are synonyms
for all intensive purposes.


perhaps "for all intended puposes"?

"Gary Drescher" wrote in message
...

Actually, the phrase is "for all intents and purposes".

--Gary


But it worked for my intended purpose , Bye

"Trent Moorehead" wrote in message
...

Waitstaff make well below minimum wage and depend on tips to
make up the difference.

And that's the *problem*.

If you had said that you worked as a waiter
for 5 years, then you'd have an argument there.

I'm just pointing out that the idea of working retail, without
getting "tips", can and does work.

My wife was a waitress for a while. She made a pile of money,
but only made $2.35/hr. before tips.

So her employer was grossly underpaying her.
What's your point?

(And before you point out that other restaurants pay the
same, I'll simply point out that they are equally at fault.)

There are some weird policies in restaurants that the patrons
never know about.

And those "policies" are *wrong*. IMO.
Is there some rule that policies are "right", just because
they are in force?

We both gained a lot of respect for good waitpeople after
her tenure. It's harder than it looks.

One doesn't need to realize that servers work hard,
to realize that the problem comes from their employers
underpaying them.

I don't know, I like the thought that the waiter/waitress is
working for ME.

???
Do you tip the department store salesperson as well,
because they are "working for YOU"? Surely you
tip the shoe salesman, right? Do you tip the server
at Mickey-D's? Aren't they working for you as well?
(And yes, Mickey-D servers sometimes have to bring
the food to your table, or to you car, so yo *BETTER*
tip them, right?)

Just imagine what kind of service you'd get in a restaurant
if the waitstaff was salaried.

That would depend on the ethics of the waitstaff, and
on the employer.

There would be no incentive for them to work for you,
just as long as the boss is happy, and he/she's not around
most of the time.

So you're basing your theoretical argument on ignorance
of the boss? Sounds pretty lame to me. If the boss isn't
aware of how his business operates, that's another issue
entirely.

You seem to be almost intentionally avoiding the real
situation of waitstaff working for a proper wage (who
says they have to be salaried?), and if their work isn't
acceptable, then (1) the boss will notice, or (2) the
customers will complain, and that person will be
fired. It seems to me that job security is a pretty good
incentive to do a good job. (But that's just me.)

Other retail outlets do this all the time. Why is it
so hard to conceive that the food industry could/should
work in the same way?

I think the problem is that a lot of people have never
waited tables and don't know how the game works.

I thikn the problem is that a lot of people never realize
that the game is designed with *bad* rules.

Waiters and waitresses are really working for YOU,

So is everyone else that you don't tip.

so you should pay them accordingly.

That's why the business doesn't charge "cost" for their
goods, because they have to pay their staff. And so
we actually *do* pay for the staff, only we do it through
the cost of goods, rather than "tipping".

But, if you get decent to great service, you're just being
cheap if you don't tip.

Not at all.
I paid for the service when I paid my bill.
If the employer underpays his/her staff, that's the
employer's problem.

Either that, or you are ignorant to the facts I just outlined.

sigh
What arrogance!

So no one's allowed to disagree with you, anyone
who disagrees with you is "ignorant", because you
are always right, and anyone who disagrees with you
is "therefore" wrong? You are the supreme authority,
you are the centre of the universe? Is that it?

Why don't you try opening your mind to the fact that
you might not know everything, and that you might
just be wrong once in a while?

-Trent

--
Jeff Shirton jshirton at cogeco dot
ca

Keep thy airspeed up, lest the earth come from below
and smite thee. - William Kershner
Challenge me (Theophilus) for a game of chess at Chessworld.net!

"Jeff Shirton" wrote

And that's the *problem*.

This all boils down to a "cultural thing".

In the US, tips for waiters are the norm. In other places, it is not. Do
whatever is the custom in the area you are in.

In Europe, I had some of the worst service I have ever had in a restaurant.
Tipping was not the custom, in that country. There was no incentive to do a
great job, IMHO.

I like it when you get to vote on the service you get, with your wallet. It
makes me feel better, when the service is poor. When the service stinks
where there is no tipping, you live with it, and you leave. Period.
--
Jim in NC

"Jeff Shirton" wrote in message
news
"Trent Moorehead" wrote in message
...

And here's another good argument against tipping.
Tipping is income "under the table", and avoids
income tax.

Bull. The IRS assumes tips of 15%.
--
Jim in NC

"Morgans" writes:

I like it when you get to vote on the service you get, with your wallet. It
makes me feel better, when the service is poor. When the service stinks
where there is no tipping, you live with it, and you leave. Period.

And you don't go back. That's voting with your wallet too.

d.

"Morgans" wrote in message
...

And that's the *problem*.

This all boils down to a "cultural thing".

Close.

It boils down to, "we do it because that's the way it's always been done",
which to me isn't a good reason.

I like it when you get to vote on the service you get, with your wallet.

So when was the last time you "voted" by tipping the grocery store
cashier, or the server behind the "Taco Bell" counter, or the Walmart
stock boy?

Jim

--
Jeff Shirton jshirton at cogeco dot
ca

Keep thy airspeed up, lest the earth come from below
and smite thee. - William Kershner
Challenge me (Theophilus) for a game of chess at Chessworld.net!

$5.15 /hour. A typical dinner out for my wife and I costs about $50.00.
If
the server does a good job I tip him $10.00. If he waits on no other
tables
during that hour he makes $15.15. If he has other tables then who knows
what he makes. That includes the U. S. government for tax purposes.

$15.15 per hour for an entry-level job is fabulous. Our house-keepers make
$7.75 to start. Our desk staff earns $8.00.

Now let's assume that this waiter works another few tables at the same time.
Suddenly he's making more per hour than a UAW line-worker in Detroit.

Of course, arguably he's doing a much harder job, but that's another topic.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

In Europe, I had some of the worst service I have ever had in a
restaurant.
Tipping was not the custom, in that country. There was no incentive to do
a
great job, IMHO.

Same was true in South America. We had five people waiting on us -- and
the service STILL sucked.

I finally cornered the girl with the coffee pot, and very carefully
explained to her that my five dollar bill was hers if ONLY she kept my
coffee cup full. After a couple of days, she got the message.

The trouble was that the wait staff split all tips equally. Since they had
so many people on staff (the hotel was apparently seen as a make-work
project) each person's share of any tip was miniscule, and any incentive was
lost.

By giving my tip to this chick on the side, she was able to reap the benefit
of her efforts.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"