US Dollar sinks to new low against Euro

I have always thought that self launchers were cool, in a intellectual
daydream world that is. My feeling has been "If only I would win the
lottery...". I'll bet a lot of us have said this.

After being around self launchers for many years, however, I mostly remember
watching the owners fiddle with them, and then send the prop in for an AD,
wait 3 months, then fiddle some more, and then send the engine in for an AD,
wait another 3 months, and then fiddle some more.

Well, maybe I am exaggerating at little. The other issue is that for the
extra cost of the engine I could buy a Pawnee and have enough left over to
hire a cute tow pilot on the interest it earned.

Maybe a bit more exaggeration. I suppose if you are antisocial or live in a
part of the country where there are no tow planes, have time only during the
week when the club is closed, or whatever, and have lots of money, and time
for fiddling, then a self launcher would be dandy.

I happen to like the people in this sport at least as well as I like the
flying. I sometimes actually enjoy waiting in a tow line telling war
stories with my buddies. Nothing beats the Saturday night barbecue at the
gliderport. Not that having a self launcher excludes you from any of this,
of course.

Another reason I don't seek self launchers is that I am not really good at
complexity. I have enough trouble with the few levers and knobs is a pure
glider. While learning to use flaps I did just about every dumb thing one
can do with that single additional handle. A little voice in my head tells
me that the complexity of a self launcher is not a good thing for me,
personally. You may be different.

I think I am usually immune to peer pressure and my perceived standing in
the gliding community. Somehow, though, after I completed a long and
difficult flight in trying conditions, and somebody said "But you have an
engine" -- I might have a problem with that!

I am having a lot of fun with this post and I'm sure I have raised Eric
Greenwell's blood pressure by now. I guess I need to tell the other side of
the story. Last summer I met a pilot from Denmark, Francis, several times
who was in the U.S. flying his DG-400 all around the western part of the
country. And I mean all around. He started in Texas, worked his way up to
Washington state, and was on his way back to Texas. He had done this sort
of thing many times, in Europe, Morocco, etc. He does this every year. He
lives out of a plastic grocery sack stuffed into the tiny luggage shelf of
the glider. We took him to motels and to dinner since we had cars. This
guy was living my daydream!

Eric is also a pilot that really uses his self launcher well and often. He
is a great guy, sociable, and fun to fly with. I'm sure that there are many
others out there, too. So a self launcher can be a wonderful thing.

I would rather spend my meager gliding money buying more L/D with several
wonderful partners in really nice ships than buying a stinky, noisy engine
and propeller to fiddle with. If I won that lottery today, I don't think I
would change what I am doing now. As always, YMMV.

Flame suit on, Eric... :-)

-Bob Korves
Duo Discus 5H
LAK-17a 5K

"Waduino" wrote in message
...
Interesting post Steve.
As an over 50 newbie to soaring flying out of a club that operates 7 days
a
week during the soaring season, I thought a self launcher was only useful
on
days when the flight line gets long. Hearing horror stories about
increased
fatalities when landing out associated with the motor (waiting too long,
failing to start, etc.) I didn't think there was a whole lot of value for
the extra $. Your post puts a different spin on it - accelerated learning,
safely exploring marginal conditions, etc. When you consider the cost of
100
tows a year, and SLs (an Apis anyway) running about an extra $20K USD, you
can amortize the motor over ten years or so with saved tow fees (which
keep
going up). Sure, maintenance will cost more, but life is short.

Wad

It has provided me the opportunity to fly when
the weather is okay, good or flat out amazing, as well as to try things
when
the weather is poor but you are just curios if there's any way you might
actually be able to get somewhere... I feel that I have been able to
accelerate my learning curve, by
using my self launcher to simply gather different experiences and even
to
mitigate certain risks and allow myself to move forward to continue
learning
and get to where I want to go.

I recently read about a turbine engine that puts out 160-260 hp and weighs
180lbs with only 18 moving parts!

As I read further about this $30k or so engine, it became clear that the
prop for it was "extra." And it was quite noisy. And fuel
consumption was close, but over a third more than
piston aircraft.

For powered planes, this is an issue, but for gliders?

I'm still interested in the idea of a turbine powered sailplane
without a propeller. Sure, very inefficient (it looks like
about 3-4 times as much fuel consumed), but gliders seem about the
ONLY place where this may be a good tradeoff, since the time of
engine running is so short.

A low weight, fuel inefficient engine with no prop, a low weight glider,
and a medium performance L/D (meaning a low stall speed so
reasonable acceleration to takeoff). Must be a single engine,
otherwise it would likely be uninsurable (as if
insuring a glider with ONE turbine wasn't bad enough

Other than a lightweight, inefficient turbine, I don't see
any other "revolutionary" powerplants for gliders which might
bring the cost down and create more widespread interest.

In article ,
Bob Korves bkorves@winfirstDECIMALcom wrote:
I have always thought that self launchers were cool, in a intellectual
daydream world that is. My feeling has been "If only I would win the
lottery...". I'll bet a lot of us have said this.

After being around self launchers for many years, however, I mostly remember
watching the owners fiddle with them, and then send the prop in for an AD,
wait 3 months, then fiddle some more, and then send the engine in for an AD,
wait another 3 months, and then fiddle some more.

Well, maybe I am exaggerating at little. The other issue is that for the
extra cost of the engine I could buy a Pawnee and have enough left over to
hire a cute tow pilot on the interest it earned.

Maybe a bit more exaggeration. I suppose if you are antisocial or live in a
part of the country where there are no tow planes, have time only during the
week when the club is closed, or whatever, and have lots of money, and time
for fiddling, then a self launcher would be dandy.

I happen to like the people in this sport at least as well as I like the
flying. I sometimes actually enjoy waiting in a tow line telling war
stories with my buddies. Nothing beats the Saturday night barbecue at the
gliderport. Not that having a self launcher excludes you from any of this,
of course.

Another reason I don't seek self launchers is that I am not really good at
complexity. I have enough trouble with the few levers and knobs is a pure
glider. While learning to use flaps I did just about every dumb thing one
can do with that single additional handle. A little voice in my head tells
me that the complexity of a self launcher is not a good thing for me,
personally. You may be different.

I think I am usually immune to peer pressure and my perceived standing in
the gliding community. Somehow, though, after I completed a long and
difficult flight in trying conditions, and somebody said "But you have an
engine" -- I might have a problem with that!

I am having a lot of fun with this post and I'm sure I have raised Eric
Greenwell's blood pressure by now. I guess I need to tell the other side of
the story. Last summer I met a pilot from Denmark, Francis, several times
who was in the U.S. flying his DG-400 all around the western part of the
country. And I mean all around. He started in Texas, worked his way up to
Washington state, and was on his way back to Texas. He had done this sort
of thing many times, in Europe, Morocco, etc. He does this every year. He
lives out of a plastic grocery sack stuffed into the tiny luggage shelf of
the glider. We took him to motels and to dinner since we had cars. This
guy was living my daydream!

Eric is also a pilot that really uses his self launcher well and often. He
is a great guy, sociable, and fun to fly with. I'm sure that there are many
others out there, too. So a self launcher can be a wonderful thing.

I would rather spend my meager gliding money buying more L/D with several
wonderful partners in really nice ships than buying a stinky, noisy engine
and propeller to fiddle with. If I won that lottery today, I don't think I
would change what I am doing now. As always, YMMV.

Flame suit on, Eric... :-)

-Bob Korves
Duo Discus 5H
LAK-17a 5K

"Waduino" wrote in message
.. .
Interesting post Steve.
As an over 50 newbie to soaring flying out of a club that operates 7 days
a
week during the soaring season, I thought a self launcher was only useful
on
days when the flight line gets long. Hearing horror stories about
increased
fatalities when landing out associated with the motor (waiting too long,
failing to start, etc.) I didn't think there was a whole lot of value for
the extra $. Your post puts a different spin on it - accelerated learning,
safely exploring marginal conditions, etc. When you consider the cost of
100
tows a year, and SLs (an Apis anyway) running about an extra $20K USD, you
can amortize the motor over ten years or so with saved tow fees (which
keep
going up). Sure, maintenance will cost more, but life is short.

Wad

It has provided me the opportunity to fly when
the weather is okay, good or flat out amazing, as well as to try things
when
the weather is poor but you are just curios if there's any way you might
actually be able to get somewhere... I feel that I have been able to
accelerate my learning curve, by
using my self launcher to simply gather different experiences and even
to
mitigate certain risks and allow myself to move forward to continue
learning
and get to where I want to go.






--

------------+
Mark J. Boyd

In article 419ab2d8$1@darkstar,
(Mark James Boyd) wrote:

I'm still interested in the idea of a turbine powered sailplane
without a propeller. Sure, very inefficient (it looks like
about 3-4 times as much fuel consumed), but gliders seem about the
ONLY place where this may be a good tradeoff, since the time of
engine running is so short.

A low weight, fuel inefficient engine with no prop, a low weight glider,
and a medium performance L/D (meaning a low stall speed so
reasonable acceleration to takeoff). Must be a single engine,
otherwise it would likely be uninsurable (as if
insuring a glider with ONE turbine wasn't bad enough

A low stall speed isn't what you want. By far the most important thing
is a high Vne. The best way to climb in a jet is to accelerate in level
flight (in ground effect if you can) to Vne and then climb at Vne.



Other than a lightweight, inefficient turbine, I don't see
any other "revolutionary" powerplants for gliders which might
bring the cost down and create more widespread interest.

There are also rockets. Lighter, simpler, less fuel efficient, and
(probably) cheaper than jets.

--
Bruce | 41.1670S | \ spoken | -+-
Hoult | 174.8263E | /\ here. | ----------O----------

Bob Korves wrote:

After being around self launchers for many years, however, I mostly
remember watching the owners fiddle with them, and then send the prop
in for an AD, wait 3 months, then fiddle some more, and then send the
engine in for an AD, wait another 3 months, and then fiddle some
more.

Was that a Stemme you were around?

Well, maybe I am exaggerating at little.

THey do require more maintenance than an unpowered sailplane because of
the motor. Most of the time, it can be deferred to the winter or other
times you can't fly anyway. The other side of the coin is an entire club
shut down because of a towplane problem, which I've experienced more
often than a problem with my motor.

The other issue is that for the extra cost of the engine I could buy
a Pawnee and have enough left over to hire a cute tow pilot on the
interest it earned.

Maybe a bit more exaggeration.

IF you fly a lot (40+ flights a year), you can save more on tow and
retrieve fees than the extra cost of interest, insurance, and
maintenance. That's also an exaggeration, but not much. And the engine
does hold it's value, so you can get your money back when you sell it.

I suppose if you are antisocial or live in a part of the country
where there are no tow planes, have time only during the week when
the club is closed, or whatever, and have lots of money, and time for
fiddling, then a self launcher would be dandy.

It's also dandy for other purposes, and dandy even if most of those
things aren't true. You quoted Steve Hill's posting, now you should read
it more carefully!


I happen to like the people in this sport at least as well as I like
the flying. I sometimes actually enjoy waiting in a tow line telling
war stories with my buddies. Nothing beats the Saturday night
barbecue at the gliderport. Not that having a self launcher excludes
you from any of this, of course.

Another reason I don't seek self launchers is that I am not really
good at complexity. I have enough trouble with the few levers and
knobs is a pure glider. While learning to use flaps I did just about
every dumb thing one can do with that single additional handle. A
little voice in my head tells me that the complexity of a self
launcher is not a good thing for me, personally.

This is an excellent reason for sticking with unpowered gliders. Safely
flying a motorglider does take more discipline and care than an
unpowered glider. You are no longer just a glider pilot, but also the
"tow" pilot.

I think I am usually immune to peer pressure and my perceived
standing in the gliding community. Somehow, though, after I
completed a long and difficult flight in trying conditions, and
somebody said "But you have an engine" -- I might have a problem with
that!

This used annoy me, but I don't hear it anymore. Pilots are much more
aware of motorgliders now, so mostly, they ask thoughtful questions
about how my flying differs, now that I have an engine. They can see I'm
flying farther and in more interesting conditions than comparable
gliders/pilots, yet I usually come back with a cold engine. It whets
their curiosity.

I am having a lot of fun with this post and I'm sure I have raised
Eric Greenwell's blood pressure by now. I guess I need to tell the
other side of the story. Last summer I met a pilot from Denmark,
Francis, several times who was in the U.S. flying his DG-400 all
around the western part of the country. And I mean all around. He
started in Texas, worked his way up to Washington state, and was on
his way back to Texas. He had done this sort of thing many times, in
Europe, Morocco, etc. He does this every year. He lives out of a
plastic grocery sack stuffed into the tiny luggage shelf of the
glider. We took him to motels and to dinner since we had cars. This
guy was living my daydream!

And then there are the two Germans that flew their ASH 26 Es from
Houston to Alaska, and back!

Eric is also a pilot that really uses his self launcher well and
often. He is a great guy, sociable, and fun to fly with.

Why, thanks, Bob!

I'm sure that there are many others out there, too. So a self
launcher can be a wonderful thing.

I would rather spend my meager gliding money buying more L/D with
several wonderful partners in really nice ships than buying a stinky,
noisy engine and propeller to fiddle with. If I won that lottery
today, I don't think I would change what I am doing now. As always,
YMMV.

They aren't for everyone, but there are plenty of people that don't
realize how much they would enjoy one, because they don't know very much
about them and how they can improve their soaring experience. Generally,
the $premium$ for the engine stops them thinking about the good things
that make it worthwhile.

--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

XC is the most fun (to me and my friends, at least),
when done in
company with friends, in similar performing ships.
With most of the
established 15m and Standard ships, that works well.
Somehow, I don't
see a Sparrowhawk keeping up with a V2, ASW-27, or
LS8.

Well I would hope not...who would want to get beat
by something that costs one-third the price


And if you go
for the Sparrowhawk option, you are opting out of most
racing -
unless you go for sports class.

???? Last time I checked...sports class was going
gang-busters. And for that matter, looking at Sports
Class results I sure see a lot of the latest ships
racing in that class. Does that mmean they are having
less fun then if they went Open/Standard/15m?


Using this logic Kirk...sounds like you need to move
up to open class.

I've seen several people out here buy PW-5s (all enthusiastic),
do a
little XC, then give it up and sell them because everybody
else leaves
them behind.

If they thought otherwise...they did not do their homework.

I see the Sparrowhawk as a typical US 'we do it different
here'
approach. I'm sure it's a nice little glider, but
not sure where it
fits in the big picture. I know I have no desire to
trade my ship for
it - it's easy to get addicted to high performance!

High performance or high dollars? Nothing wrong with
promoting flying new ships...that now go for $100K+,
but in theory soaring has not quite become America's
Cup yacht racing yet.

Kirk

Stewart Kissel wrote in message ...

Well I would hope not...who would want to get beat
by something that costs one-third the price

Yes, if new is the object; but an older used std or 15m will run about
the same as a new Sparrowhawk and have significant performance
advantages - granted with some disadvantges. Depends what you want.

???? Last time I checked...sports class was going
gang-busters. And for that matter, looking at Sports
Class results I sure see a lot of the latest ships
racing in that class. Does that mmean they are having
less fun then if they went Open/Standard/15m?

I'll concede this point - although for some sports class doesn't have
a lot of appeal, judging by the group I race with (myself included).
Sorry, I want to race, not just fly around on my own (my own biased
preference, I dislike PST intensely so will no even consider Sports
class - but no criticism of Sports class advocates intended).

Using this logic Kirk...sounds like you need to move
up to open class.

I've flown some XC in a Lak-12 and enjoyed it, but prefer 15M. That
may change as I move East; I sure wish I could get some 18M tips for
my LS6!


If they thought otherwise...they did not do their homework.

I totally agree.


High performance or high dollars? Nothing wrong with
promoting flying new ships...that now go for $100K+,
but in theory soaring has not quite become America's
Cup yacht racing yet.

High performance + new = high dollars
High performance + used = less dollars
High performance + syndicate = less dollars
Medium performance + new = less dollars
Medium performance + used = even less dollars.

Take your pick. And as you said, do your homework!

Kirk

(Mike Stringfellow) wrote in message . com...
The US dollar is now valued close to 0.75 Euro, down from its peak of
1.25 a couple of years ago. Analysts say it may go even lower, with
some projecting exchange rates of 0.7 (1.4 dollar to the Euro).

This has pretty much put the kibosh on my goals of buying a new
European sailplane. A model at, say, Euro 85,000 cost around $70,000
a couple of years ago, is now around $110,000 and may soon be at
$120,000.

Economic models would suggest a strong incentive for sailplane
manufacture in North America, but I wonder if the numbers of potential
sales would justify this.

Any thoughts?

Yes, invest your money and wait. For instance, if you put your money
in a high quality mutual fund you will begin accumulating principal.
Take your $70,000 and put in a Morningstar 5-star fund (i.e. Fidelity
Contrafund). If you average 15% return the numbers a
Year Amount
0 $70000
1 80500
2 92575
3 106461
4 122430
5 140795
6 161914
etc.

At some point the price of the glider, converted from euros, is going
to be less than your investment. BUY THE GLIDER! This is, simply, the
power of compounded interest.

Don't agree with my numbers? Then put your damn money into a mattress
and see what happens!

The moral of the story is that patience is on the side of the buyer.

(Tom Seim) wrote in message om...
(Mike Stringfellow) wrote in message . com...
The US dollar is now valued close to 0.75 Euro, down from its peak of
1.25 a couple of years ago. Analysts say it may go even lower, with
some projecting exchange rates of 0.7 (1.4 dollar to the Euro).

This has pretty much put the kibosh on my goals of buying a new
European sailplane. A model at, say, Euro 85,000 cost around $70,000
a couple of years ago, is now around $110,000 and may soon be at
$120,000.

Economic models would suggest a strong incentive for sailplane
manufacture in North America, but I wonder if the numbers of potential
sales would justify this.

Any thoughts?

Yes, invest your money and wait. For instance, if you put your money
in a high quality mutual fund you will begin accumulating principal.
Take your $70,000 and put in a Morningstar 5-star fund (i.e. Fidelity
Contrafund). If you average 15% return the numbers a
Year Amount
0 $70000
1 80500
2 92575
3 106461
4 122430
5 140795
6 161914
etc.

At some point the price of the glider, converted from euros, is going
to be less than your investment. BUY THE GLIDER! This is, simply, the
power of compounded interest.

Don't agree with my numbers? Then put your damn money into a mattress
and see what happens!

The moral of the story is that patience is on the side of the buyer.

Interesting story.
The only trouble with it is that an average return of 15% on your
investment is not enough to keep up with the free fall of the US
dollar.

Ruud wrote:
(Tom Seim) wrote in message om...

(Mike Stringfellow) wrote in message . com...

The US dollar is now valued close to 0.75 Euro, down from its peak of
1.25 a couple of years ago. Analysts say it may go even lower, with
some projecting exchange rates of 0.7 (1.4 dollar to the Euro).

This has pretty much put the kibosh on my goals of buying a new
European sailplane. A model at, say, Euro 85,000 cost around $70,000
a couple of years ago, is now around $110,000 and may soon be at
$120,000.

Economic models would suggest a strong incentive for sailplane
manufacture in North America, but I wonder if the numbers of potential
sales would justify this.

Any thoughts?

Yes, invest your money and wait. For instance, if you put your money
in a high quality mutual fund you will begin accumulating principal.
Take your $70,000 and put in a Morningstar 5-star fund (i.e. Fidelity
Contrafund). If you average 15% return the numbers a
Year Amount
0 $70000
1 80500
2 92575
3 106461
4 122430
5 140795
6 161914
etc.

At some point the price of the glider, converted from euros, is going
to be less than your investment. BUY THE GLIDER! This is, simply, the
power of compounded interest.

Don't agree with my numbers? Then put your damn money into a mattress
and see what happens!

The moral of the story is that patience is on the side of the buyer.


Interesting story.
The only trouble with it is that an average return of 15% on your
investment is not enough to keep up with the free fall of the US
dollar.
You can also try a different strategy - If you have the cash, or can borrow it
at nominal interest. Order the most expensive European glider you can afford and
pay upfront. Delivery is at least one year, some as much as two.

When the glider ships you can afford to offer immediate delivery of a brand new
glider at the factory price. You may even be in a position to be generous and
offer a slight discount in dollar terms. Your rate of return on the investment
will be the depreciation rate of the Dollar against the Euro, compounded over
the period.

This works as long as the dollar is on a one way ticket against the Euro.
Probably a good bet until the US deficit is wound down a bit and messers Bush
and co stop throwing money at Iraquis.

Lots of folk made money this way in South Africa betting against the first world
currencies. Rand went one way, with minor reversals from R2/USD mid 1970s. That
is, until 2002 when the rand was at 12 / USD - before retracing to its current
R6/USD. The guys who bought big two years ago are hurting a little at present.

Arbitrage is always risky, but sometimes it pays off.

"Ruud" wrote in message
om...
(Tom Seim) wrote in message
om...
(Mike Stringfellow) wrote in message
. com...
The US dollar is now valued close to 0.75 Euro, down from its peak of
1.25 a couple of years ago. Analysts say it may go even lower, with
some projecting exchange rates of 0.7 (1.4 dollar to the Euro).

This has pretty much put the kibosh on my goals of buying a new
European sailplane. A model at, say, Euro 85,000 cost around $70,000
a couple of years ago, is now around $110,000 and may soon be at
$120,000.

Economic models would suggest a strong incentive for sailplane
manufacture in North America, but I wonder if the numbers of potential
sales would justify this.

Any thoughts?

Yes, invest your money and wait. For instance, if you put your money
in a high quality mutual fund you will begin accumulating principal.
Take your $70,000 and put in a Morningstar 5-star fund (i.e. Fidelity
Contrafund). If you average 15% return the numbers a
Year Amount
0 $70000
1 80500
2 92575
3 106461
4 122430
5 140795
6 161914
etc.

At some point the price of the glider, converted from euros, is going
to be less than your investment. BUY THE GLIDER! This is, simply, the
power of compounded interest.

Don't agree with my numbers? Then put your damn money into a mattress
and see what happens!

The moral of the story is that patience is on the side of the buyer.

Interesting story.
The only trouble with it is that an average return of 15% on your
investment is not enough to keep up with the free fall of the US
dollar.

It's time to drag out the old quote spoken by JP Morgan, "The market will
fluctuate". That's true of exchange rates as well as stocks. Economic
forces are largely self correcting especially in the international economy -
although the time scale of the correction may be long. The US economy has a
lot of problems but then so does all other world economies.

The low value of the US Dollar is largely due to the US central banks
interest rate cuts post "Dot Bomb" and 9/11. US interest rates are now on
an upward trajectory and that will raise the value of the US Dollar over the
next few years. International money fund managers know this and will be
slowly moving money into the US economy which will amplify the effect.

The advice to sit tight and invest is a good one. Maybe buy an old glider
and enjoy flying it while the exchange rate corrects.

Bill Daniels