Tragity

"Thomas Borchert" wrote in message
...
Please don't remove what you are replying to since it makes your answer
ambigious

Please get a decent newsreader that will show context ;-)

Even a newsreader that shows threads cannot tell you what text in the
previous message is being referenced in a reply.

The decision-maker at the school in question probably taught probability
and statistics.

That's not a glowing endorsement of Margy's educational system.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

My theory is if you all go down together it's better than if 2 of you go
down. At least the grieving is out of the immediate family. Now, if just
you and Mary fly together and leave the kids home make sure the will has
them going to nice folks. On the other hand you probably aren't too far
away from the kids going off flying and leaving you and Mary at home :-)

Actually, we've got that base covered, too. If something should happen to
us, Mary's sister gets the kids, while my sister gets financial control.
They must work *together* to get anything done.

This not only puts checks and balances in place, but also makes for a
hilarious and entertaining afterlife for Mary and me...

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

In article nospam-4015AC.19342216102005@shawnews,
tony roberts wrote:

I fly Young Eagles through 2 different clubs.
Prior to this accident we had been discussing changing our rules to
prohibit 2 kids from the same family to fly in the same plane.

We should all look at this. Loss to the family, liability - let's split
them up - everyone wins!


Knowing what I know as a certificated pilot, I would be very reluctant
to permit my child(ren) to fly with an unknown pilot. However, I would
much rather have my child(ren) in a single-engine airplane with a
competent pilot than in a car on the highway. There is no doubt in my
mind that there is much less risk in the former than in the latter. If
the competence and proficiency of the pilot is not known, then the risk
is considerably higher.



JKG

Jay Honeck wrote:
Forget the public, my school system won't even let me MENTION the YE
program. I had arranged YE flights for 56 students in our high school
aerospace program when the teacher of that program was informed that he
was NOT going to take those kids flying and if he did and if anything
happened they would hang him out to dry, personally!


That's outrageous.

Have you been able to get to the bottom of this travesty of
"education", Margy?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Hey, I'm in the DC area. We've got TONS of lawyers so we can't do
anything. As Scott Crossfield put it "we are protecting our kids so
well they can't do anything" (more or less his words). We live and die
by conservative risk management. I even got caught doping model
airplanes in my classroom on a SATURDAY morning. Damn, I thought I'd
never get caught on a Saturday!! I snuck it though on a purchase order,
oh well.

Margy

Jay Honeck wrote:
My theory is if you all go down together it's better than if 2 of you go
down. At least the grieving is out of the immediate family. Now, if just
you and Mary fly together and leave the kids home make sure the will has
them going to nice folks. On the other hand you probably aren't too far
away from the kids going off flying and leaving you and Mary at home :-)


Actually, we've got that base covered, too. If something should happen to
us, Mary's sister gets the kids, while my sister gets financial control.
They must work *together* to get anything done.

This not only puts checks and balances in place, but also makes for a
hilarious and entertaining afterlife for Mary and me...

:-)
damn you Jay, you made me spit into my computer!!!!

Margy

Jonathan Goodish wrote in
:

In article nospam-4015AC.19342216102005@shawnews,
tony roberts wrote:

I fly Young Eagles through 2 different clubs.
Prior to this accident we had been discussing changing our rules to
prohibit 2 kids from the same family to fly in the same plane.

We should all look at this. Loss to the family, liability - let's
split them up - everyone wins!


Knowing what I know as a certificated pilot, I would be very reluctant
to permit my child(ren) to fly with an unknown pilot. However, I
would much rather have my child(ren) in a single-engine airplane with
a competent pilot than in a car on the highway. There is no doubt in
my mind that there is much less risk in the former than in the latter.
If the competence and proficiency of the pilot is not known, then the
risk is considerably higher.



JKG

Hrmmm..

That just makes too much sense... In a car, you have at least as much
chance of dying as the result of someone ELSES stupidity as your own,
while in an aircraft the vast majority of possible fatal incidents are
under your direct control as the Pilot....

I can only think of a few instances where someone elses stupidity comes
into play... mid air (contributory), runway incursion,.... of course a
mechanic who screws something up that is not visible on inspection......


--
-- ET :-)

"A common mistake people make when trying to design something
completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete
fools."---- Douglas Adams

Tom Conner wrote:

Try to learn how to post.

Better that he should learn how not to post.

George Patterson
Drink is the curse of the land. It makes you quarrel with your neighbor.
It makes you shoot at your landlord. And it makes you miss him.

"ET" wrote in message
...
Jonathan Goodish wrote in
:
Knowing what I know as a certificated pilot, I would be very reluctant
to permit my child(ren) to fly with an unknown pilot. However, I
would much rather have my child(ren) in a single-engine airplane with
a competent pilot than in a car on the highway. There is no doubt in
my mind that there is much less risk in the former than in the latter.
If the competence and proficiency of the pilot is not known, then the
risk is considerably higher.

That just makes too much sense...

Only if you ignore all the actual data that's been discussed here.

In a car, you have at least as much
chance of dying as the result of someone ELSES stupidity as your own,
while in an aircraft the vast majority of possible fatal incidents are
under your direct control as the Pilot....

I can only think of a few instances where someone elses stupidity comes
into play... mid air (contributory), runway incursion,.... of course a
mechanic who screws something up that is not visible on inspection......

The problem is that these "few instances" already add up to a higher
fatality rate *by themselves* than the *total* fatality rate for driving.
All the other, far more common ways to die in an airplane--the pilot
errors--are *in addition* to that already higher rate.

--Gary

In article ,
ET wrote:
That just makes too much sense... In a car, you have at least as much
chance of dying as the result of someone ELSES stupidity as your own,
while in an aircraft the vast majority of possible fatal incidents are
under your direct control as the Pilot....

I can only think of a few instances where someone elses stupidity comes
into play... mid air (contributory), runway incursion,.... of course a
mechanic who screws something up that is not visible on inspection......

There is risk in everything that we do. Driving in a car, even with a
competent driver, has to be riskier than flying in a well-maintained
single engine airplane with a competent and proficient pilot.

Unfortunately, it seems to be very difficult to assess the competency
and proficiency of a dead pilot after the accident. The only statistics
I've ever seen appear to lump all pilots together, with some exceptions
for data on certificates and ratings, which still don't do much to
assess the pilot's skill or judgment. Human beings in the pilot
community often try to deflect attention away from the dead pilot by
calling the that person a "great pilot" or "very experienced," which
doesn't help if the pilot wasn't faithful to those traits. While most
accidents appear to point to pilot error, there are some very good
pilots who just happen to draw the short straw that day. However, the
same observation is possible with virtually any activity.

I can't drive 1 mile down the road without having someone cut me off,
slam on their brakes and turn without signaling, cross the center line
into my lane, etc. I don't have any of those concerns in flight. I'm
sorry, but I simply can't believe that I'm safer on the road than in
flight, based on my own first-hand experience.

I haven't been following this thread, so I'm not sure what the latest is
on the accident that started this thread. Based on what I've read,
though, it sounds like a botched landing and an incorrect or unlucky
recovery. If that's the case, the cause will likely point to pilot
error that could have been prevented by better skill, judgment, or both.



JKG