Oshkosh arrivals

On 27 Jul 2006 06:30:30 -0700, wrote:


Viperdoc wrote:
Isn't the procedure for IFR arrivals to do the VFR approaches via Ripon if
there are VMC conditions?

The last time they brought me straight in to 27 on the VOR. Just
fitted me between a couple of others. Unfortunately we had a window
poster for parking in front of the tower and the ground crew took us
off the left side of 27. We had to taxi clear to the end, around past
Baslers, the East end of 27, and then the diagonal runway used as a
taxiway which is where we picked up an escorte to the parking behind
the safety shack.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

I think that is the recommendation, but from a practical standpoint
it's not uncommon to stay IFR all the way in, especially the bigger and
heavier you are.

Hope you are well! I did finally get that waiver, took months.

Ryan Wubben
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

On Sun, 23 Jul 2006 22:04:56 -0400, "Morgans"
wrote:

I wonder how many mishaps occur annually at Air Venture?

That's easy. Just read the NTSB and FAA accident pages each day.

There has already been a double fatal crash, today.

At around 8:45 this morning, an experimental came down short of 9/27, and
both of the occupants died. The Oshkosh papers had no more details, but I
was able to find one source that said they were from Washington state. No
other details, as to why they came down short, or what kind of plane.

It is a rare year that at least 6 don't die either on the way to or on the
way home from Osh. Some years there are no fatals in the immediate area,
and some years there are several fatals due to airport operations.

I started going in 95. Then ended up working in the homebuilders
center. I'd arrive about 4 or 5 days to a week before the show
started. I'd usually leave a couple of days before the finish. I
haven't gone in a few years as I just don't have the stamina to handle
the heat on the hot days and I was there when the actual temperature
was well over a 100.

At any rate in all the years I was there, no one was killed "while I
was there". One year a guy piled up a jet war bird short of the runway
the day after I left. He got out but his wife didn't. The worst I saw
was when the F4U Corsair hit the other warbird on the runway right in
front of me over by the safety shack.

I got to see "Old Crow" do a landing on one wheel with a 90 degree
cross wind and then try to imitate a "Frisbee" when the right wing hit
the dirt. She was about to touch down when I remembered both cameras
were in the home builder's center.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 07:50:21 GMT, Larry Dighera
wrote:

On 23 Jul 2006 20:46:38 -0700, wrote in
.com::

The radio was alive with two different calls of bingo fuel,

Imagine how chagrined Burt Rutan must be to be associated with these
pilots through his membership in the EAA.

Flight plan only requires to your destination plus a half hour. Not
many are going to plan on more than an extra hour in the air. Me? I'm
paranoid about fuel and rarely go any where without full tanks. If I
couldn't get into OSH I could use Atlanta as an alternate.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 07:44:37 GMT, Larry Dighera
wrote:

On Sun, 23 Jul 2006 22:04:56 -0400, "Morgans"
wrote in ::

It is a rare year that at least 6 don't die either on the way to or on the
way home from Osh.

It's not usually quite that bad and is usually a lot better than
Sun-n'-fun..


That is truly tragic and pathetic. Is that the best airmen can do?

The majority usually do happen some where other than at the field so
we don't hear about them until later.


Some years there are no fatals in the immediate area,
and some years there are several fatals due to airport operations.

I would say they were probably due to pilot incompetence rather than
blame airport operations.

What sort of image do such statistics about airmen conger in the minds
of the lay public?

Probably about the same as they do in mine.

We were all taught stabilized patterns as students, but few go much
beyond that. Fewer yet practice to the point of not only knowing the
edges of the envelope for the planes they fly, but being able to feel
the edge.

Put a pilot who is used to flying a stabilized pattern and carries an
extra 10 knots for comfort on final, five for the kids, five for ma,
and the full gust factor into a line of planes that causes him to get
any where near MCA to stay in line and it's a receipt for disaster.

Now he's flying at unfamiliar airspeeds, has people telling him when
to turn base and final at such slow airspeeds, and he gets rattled
when ever he sees another plane within a 1000 feel let alone 500. Now
he finds planes within a couple hundred feet. Instead of S-turns to
stay clear of the plane in front he slows down more and gets fixated
on the tail of the plane in front and forgets to watch the air speed.
He doesn't even have to cross control on base to final to stall. It's
a wonder more don't end up short of the runway.

As I've said before, this is no place for a pilot who always flies a
stabilized pattern and doesn't know the limitations of the airplane
and the feel of those limitations.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com


What sort of program does the Experimental Aircraft Association have
in place to reduce the death toll resulting from AirVenture
attendance?
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 01:48:11 -0400, "Morgans"
wrote:


"Jim Logajan" wrote

"EAA spokesman Dick Knapinski says the homebuilt airplane landed short of
the runway at Wittman Regional Airport.

This is the first fatal crash at the air show in a long time. "The weather
conditions were just about perfect, It was perfectly clear, Very little,
if
any, wind at the time. It has to be at least 15 years, just a considerable
length of time since something like this occurred at the airport," said
Knapinski."

Although I would not expect any less, they are splitting hairs. If you
counted maneuvering in the pattern, one year (I think '99) there were two
separate fatal stall spin crashes within a mile or two from the airport.

Don't forget the jet warbird that crashed on a city street when he got
too slow a few years back either.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

"Roger" wrote

I started going in 95. Then ended up working in the homebuilders
center. I'd arrive about 4 or 5 days to a week before the show
started. I'd usually leave a couple of days before the finish. I
haven't gone in a few years as I just don't have the stamina to handle
the heat on the hot days and I was there when the actual temperature
was well over a 100.

At any rate in all the years I was there, no one was killed "while I
was there". One year a guy piled up a jet war bird short of the runway
the day after I left. He got out but his wife didn't. The worst I saw
was when the F4U Corsair hit the other warbird on the runway right in
front of me over by the safety shack.

Yep, it isn't every year that someone is killed right at the airport, but in
one year (I think it was 2000) there were two fatal crashes, one right off
the end of 36, (but technically not on airport grounds) and another about a
mile or so from the runway. Both seemed to be too slow-spin crash
accidents. In the same year, there were several other crashes , mostly due
to some bad weather, with people going to or going home from the show.

I was counting people going to, landing or taking off from, or going home,
from the OSH show. I was surprised that I remembered that being a pretty
constant number, but that year was 7, I think. The years from 2001 to
present, the numbers *were* less, to my surprise, but usually at least a
couple had OSH as destination, or departure in the NTSB reports.
--
Jim in NC

"Roger" wrote

I got to see "Old Crow" do a landing on one wheel with a 90 degree
cross wind and then try to imitate a "Frisbee" when the right wing hit
the dirt. She was about to touch down when I remembered both cameras
were in the home builder's center.

I remember one year ('99, I think), it was real gusty, wind out of about
270, and Aluminum Overcast was doing an overhead approach to landing on 18.
He got so low, I thought for sure he was going to crash, from hitting the
wing on the ground.

I heard later that he didn't hit the ground, but he was so close, he hit the
wingtip on a landing light and bent up the wing tip. OOps!!! At least he
didn't pile it up!
--
Jim in NC

On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 21:00:22 -0600, Newps wrote:



Viperdoc wrote:

Agree completely. Was listening to the live ATC broadcast, and someone in a
Canadian registered plane calls up and starts talking, also in the wrong
place and completely oblivious. The controller asked him if he had the
arrival notams and where exactly he was, but the guy said he did not have
the information, and was around 5 southwest.

The controller was a model of cool, and went through the normal procedures
to identify the guy and get him sequenced. It's amazing that more crashes
don't actually occur.


That's BS.. "Sir, turn around and fly at least 100 miles in the opposite
direction. Land. Get the notam. Study it and know it. Then takeoff
and fly the procedure."

Ahhh... I'd think the last thing I'd want to do it take some one who
has already proven themselves to be completely clueless turn around
and fly *toward* all those airplanes coming into Oshkosh. If he's 5
SW he's already in the dense traffic with far more coming toward him
than away.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

"Roger" wrote

Don't forget the jet warbird that crashed on a city street when he got
too slow a few years back either.

Yeah, it hacked me off a little more than a little bit, when the EAA said
that there had never been a fatality at the airport, until this year,
earlier this week.

If that isn't "spinning it" I don't know what is. :-(
--
Jim in NC

Grumman-581 wrote:
On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 09:14:37 -0600, Newps wrote:
I've never been to OSH, but based on what I've seen at other places the
FAA can't dream of having the manpower available to have a chat with
every pilot that screws up the arrival.

Considering the number of planes that fly into there during such a
short timespan, I think they do pretty damn good... I've flow in and
out of there 3 times so far... A little research (i.e. read the
****in' NOTAM beforehand) and things go pretty good... Be familiar
enough with the various approaches that you can handle the case where
they change approaches on you and you'll do fine... Nothing quite like
the bit of adrenaline rush of being in the flare and then the
controllers asking you to switch to the parallel runway... Oh yeah,
you should also be familiar with your plane so that you can handle
these impromptu diversions...


AMEN, Brother!!!!