Crashing on takeoff... how odd

I remember back when I was working on my Lear type (first time I had ever
flown a jet). I was given a V1 cut and, while I had the airplane under
control, I was about 30 degrees off runway heading, screaming over the
planes in the tiedown area at 100 feet or so. I got better after that.....

Bob Gardner

"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
ups.com...
I remember a recent discussion with a pilot mate where I was mentioning
how illogical a crash-shortly-after-takeoff is, given that beyond V1
takeoff can safely be continued even with just one good engine. I'd
even told him that if I saw an aircraft airborne following takeoff, I'd
presume it safe.

Days after that tete-a-tete, a Fokker went down in Pakistan shortly
after taking off. And today the Bombardier at Kentucky.

Doesn't add up, does it? After all, if the engines are good and there's
no bomb going off, it should be pretty hard to crash an aircraft!

Getting cross-wise with a twin following an engine failure is easy if
you're not "On your game".

Newps wrote:


Emily wrote:

How much
would a typical light twin pitch up on takeoff with the trim set like
that? I know myself, I usually ended up trimming down on climb
because the nose was hard to hold down (although I never flew the 76)

Then you started with too much nose up trim on takeoff.

I think I'm just wimpy, actually. I trim up in the flare, because it's
the only way I can land one-handed.


Every plane is
different. Go out and try it yourself with whatever you fly. Go up to
altitude and slow down as much as possiblein a takeoff configuration,
then roll in full nose up trim and go to full power. It'll get your
attention but you'll have no problem.

Unless an engine goes out...but I'll probably try it next time I'm up.

Emily wrote:

Gene Seibel wrote:

Fatalities Accidents/hull loss
Takeoff 27% 17%
Landing 15% 52%

Thus there is a much lower risk of getting into an accident on takeoff,
but takeoff accidents result in a higher rate of fatalities.


Though my two accidents followed landings, there have been a couple
takeoffs that scared me far more than any landings.


Same here. I can't think offhand of any landings were I thought I might
crash, but I vividly remember almost taking out the localizer antenna on
takeoff once.

You pull the yoke back to take-off. :-)

Matt

Emily wrote:

Newps wrote:



Emily wrote:

How much

would a typical light twin pitch up on takeoff with the trim set like
that? I know myself, I usually ended up trimming down on climb
because the nose was hard to hold down (although I never flew the 76)


Then you started with too much nose up trim on takeoff.


I think I'm just wimpy, actually. I trim up in the flare, because it's
the only way I can land one-handed.

What do you fly? The largest airplane I've landed outside of a
simulator is a 182. It was easy to flare with one hand. Might want to
hit the weight room a little more often. :-)

Matt

Judah wrote:

Matt Whiting wrote in
:


If the tower cleared the airplane to the correct runway and the pilots
taxied to a different one, how does the tower share in this blame?


On what basis are you assuming that he was cleared to the correct runway?

Doesn't matter. It is up to us as pilots to be familiar with all
available information prior to our flight. That includes the length of
runway required for takeoff and the lengths of the runways at the
airports we are using.


Matt

Judah wrote:

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in
nk.net:


"Judah" wrote in message
8...

Matt Whiting wrote in
:


If the tower cleared the airplane to the correct runway and the pilots
taxied to a different one, how does the tower share in this blame?

On what basis are you assuming that he was cleared to the correct
runway?


He's not. He said IF the tower cleared the airplane to the correct
runway.



I read the inflection of the "If" as a statement of presumption, not as the
subject of the query. But you're right - I could have misread the intent.

I was speculating that the clearance was correct, but even if it wasn't,
I make the same assertion - it is the pilots' fault if they took off on
a runway too short for their operating conditions. What part of PIC
don't you understand?

Matt

Bob Gardner wrote:

You and I both know that the final decision is the pilot's...but we live in
a world where the media wants sensation and the legal system wants to assign
blame. When the lawsuits finally hit the courts (and there will be lawsuits,
count on it), the prosecutors will look in every nook and cranny for someone
to pin it on...and the tower will be in their sights along with others.

Yes, Bob, I'm all too aware of the likely legal outcome, but that
doesn't make it right.

Matt

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...

Well, that would also be a mistake as that isn't the proper reference for
the DG.



Perhaps, but it's one that many use and it works quite well if you know the
magnetic azimuth of the runway.

It works well if you know what runway you are on. However, a runway can
be quite a ways off the magnetic azimuth before it gets renumbered so
you could easily be 5 degrees off on your DG setting.

Matt

Emily wrote:

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...

I can certainly see how one could taxi to the wrong runway and even
line up on it. But taking off on it is inexcusable. One of the last
checks I was taught to make before firewalling the throttle is to
check that the heading of the airplane matches the runway to which I
was cleared for takeoff. It takes less than two seconds to make this
check and it will catch this error every time.


Perhaps they did, and when they found the 40 degree error they reset
the gyro to correct the discrepancy.

Speaking for myself, if I get on a runway and see an error that large, I
check to see if something else has been wrong. Especially if I'm IFR, I
don't want a 40 degree error on my DG.

That being said, I almost took off on the wrong runway once, and figured
it out before I did. It does happen, probably more than the public
realizes.

I landed on the wrong runway at Reading, PA early in my flying career.
I was cleared for a right downwind to R36 and hadn't made many right
traffic patterns before. I wasn't paying sufficient attention and ended
up lining up on 31 and didn't cross-check the DG as I should have. I
noticed the error at almost the same time the controller did, but
traffic wasn't a factor so he just came on quickly and said something
like "it appears you are lined up for 31 rather than 36, cleared to land
31."

I definitely understand how this can happen which is one reason I'm much
more careful now about cross-checking with the compass and DG,
especially when flying IFR.

Matt

Bob Gardner wrote:

You and I both know that the final decision is the pilot's...but we live in
a world where the media wants sensation and the legal system wants to assign
blame. When the lawsuits finally hit the courts (and there will be lawsuits,
count on it), the prosecutors will look in every nook and cranny for someone
to pin it on...and the tower will be in their sights along with others.


They won't be prosecuters, they will be the scum sucking trial lawyers
and they will be looking for money.