Gloom

On Mon, 18 Jun 2007 19:52:15 GMT, Kevin Clarke
wrote:

Nathan Young wrote:
On Mon, 18 Jun 2007 13:04:15 GMT, Kevin Clarke
wrote:


AJ wrote:

...

Airports need to be viewed in the same manner. Any single airport
does not matter that much, but when viewed in aggregate, the entire
system is invaluable to our ability to quickly deliver goods/services
throughout the country.

-Nathan

Thanks, I'll buy this argument that makes sense. It is a variation on
the network effect.

Good analogy. I like it.

-Nathan

Kevin Clarke wrote:
I do not get this argument. I would like to understand it. But why is
the little podunk airport important? 3B3 Sterling, Mass, offers very
little to the local economy, if anything. KFIT, my home base, offers
very little to the local economy, a couple of shops, a restaurant, a few
commercial flights (Part 135) per week. Are they that big a deal?
KC

On the expense side to the argument you could say that the airport is
keeping taxes down. It pays some taxes to the town and uses very little
resources.

That big flat area of land is probably very desirable a residential
developer. I'm not sure how much land 3B3 sits on, but say they put 150
homes on 100 acres. If each home pays about $3,600/year in property
taxes, and has on average one school age child, that development is a
big money loser for the town since it costs Sterling $6,570 per year per
student (publicschoolreview.com). New homes are often purchased by young
families. Also, the costs for the town go way up if there's more than
one child in the family while property taxes don't change.

I see the Board of Education in Sterling wanted a 13.5% increase this
year, and the Selectmen wanted to hold it down to _only_ 9.9%. Since
Sterling now has about 1400 K-12 students (from city-data.com) Adding
another 150 students would make that 9.9% increase budget go up to a
10.6% increase, assuming a linear increase and new facilities aren't
needed.

This is only the education numbers. There are all the other service
needs residential development creates like road maintenance, police/fire
protection, library, tax collector services, etc.

"Paul Dow (Remove Caps in mail address)" wrote in
message ...

That big flat area of land is probably very desirable a residential
developer.

Was talking to NWPilot yesterday (he has a new story to tell!) about
Evergreen air park in Vancouver which was closed down after decades of
operation, for rampant housing development. I started thinking "This is an
echo of what the tribal Americans must have felt. Their functional way of
life crowded and closed out by a few people making big money off clueless
immigrant masses."

At some point, people have to draw the line and decide that land developers
and the officials they pay off don't always get to dictate what happens to
our communities or we will end up flying on the functional equivalent of
indian reservations. All we have to do is look to American history to see
what happened to the Seminole and the Cherokee (Pun intended) to see one
possible future.

-c

"Gatt" wrote in message
...

"Paul Dow (Remove Caps in mail address)" wrote in
message ...

That big flat area of land is probably very desirable a residential
developer.

Was talking to NWPilot yesterday (he has a new story to tell!) about
Evergreen air park in Vancouver which was closed down after decades of
operation, for rampant housing development. I started thinking "This is an
echo of what the tribal Americans must have felt. Their functional way of
life crowded and closed out by a few people making big money off clueless
immigrant masses."

At some point, people have to draw the line and decide that land
developers and the officials they pay off don't always get to dictate what
happens to our communities or we will end up flying on the functional
equivalent of indian reservations. All we have to do is look to American
history to see what happened to the Seminole and the Cherokee (Pun
intended) to see one possible future.

-c


http://members.tripod.com/airfields_...lds_WA_SW.html

I never went to Evergreen, but it was poorly located to deal with urban
sprawl (e.g. it couldn't have been more in the prime area for development if
they tried). But I wonder what might have happened if they had tried to
bring in a bunch of businesses that needed the airport to survive?

("Gatt" wrote)
At some point, people have to draw the line and decide that land
developers and the officials they pay off don't always get to dictate what
happens to our communities or we will end up flying on the functional
equivalent of indian reservations. All we have to do is look to American
history to see what happened to the Seminole and the Cherokee (Pun
intended) to see one possible future.


I'm seeing hangar casinos in the near future.


Paul-Mont

AJ wrote:
Strange as it sounds, the LSA designation could be a door through
which future pilots can join the ranks. Younger crowds simply can't
juggle the expense of raising families, paying mortgages and flying,
while the older crowd has already paid off most of those bills and can
funnel cash to their flying pursuits.

That is the way things have been for the last 60 years.
What has changed is the competition for the surplus dollars.
As fuel prices rise, the cheap airfares are disappearing, making GA more
attractive on a per seat cost per flight basis.

Jay Honeck wrote:
So why the gloom?

Like most people, I think this has been in the works a long time.
Aviation has traditionally been the province of the wealthy. We're just
seeing the owner population decline more rapidly due primarily to the
doubling of gas prices and maintenance costs over the past 5 years. The
FUD regarding user-fees hasn't helped either.

As far as the LSAs go, they may be the future for the $100-hamburger
guys, but for anyone that really wants to get anywhere and carry
anything, they are by design woefully inadequate. If they keep the
"average guy" (defined apparently by someone who has the means and
desire to spend $85K+ on a flying grocery cart) at the airport, then
great -- I welcome them. At the current prices, however, LSAs only
delay the inevitable for the same reason that traditionally-certified GA
aircraft are no longer an option for joe average -- price. LSAs would
be a good deal only if priced less than 50K, since then literally anyone
with a job other than cleaning toilets could afford them.

Regarding the Piper problem, this is clearly spoken by a CEO that has
been dealt a stacked deck and is trying to run the numbers on aviation
-- something we all know won't end well The problem with Piper is that
it lacks the financial clout to fight lawsuits because they failed to
diversify. Years ago they killed the Cheyenne line -- the very aircraft
that could have kept them awash in money and helped fund the development
of small jets. The Piper VLJ is a good idea for Piper's financial
future, but it's about 30 years too late to the party. Cessna is the
model here. Build piston aircraft more or less at a loss, but make it
up on the aircraft targeted at the commercial markets that can support
higher margins (i.e. turboprops & jets). Make no mistake...this is not
a failing of GA in particular but that of Piper's inept management over
the years.

In spite of GARA, liability is still the single biggest threat to the
success of GA. The only thing that will save aviation is further,
drastic Tort reform. We need to limit lawsuits of ANY kind in aviation
to 7 years, strictly limit who can sue (e.g. one plaintiff per action)
and limit the maximum award to something reasonable like $250K per
incident. Once the money supply dries up, so will the ambulance-chasing
attorneys. The ripple effect will ultimately reduce the cost of flying.

-Doug

--
--------------------
Doug Vetter, ATP/CFI

http://www.dvatp.com
--------------------

In spite of GARA, liability is still the single biggest threat to the
success of GA. The only thing that will save aviation is further,
drastic Tort reform.

I didn't mention it, but Bass spent a large portion of his speech
discussing precisely this.

He says it's gotten so crazy that lawsuits are now being pressed for
more and more bizarre reasons, like the passenger didn't "feel right",
or they were "scared" -- and Piper must defend itself against each and
every one of them, at great expense.

The older I get, the more convinced I am that we MUST go to a "loser
pays" system, or we will never regain any sanity in our legal system.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

In spite of GARA, liability is still the single biggest threat to the success of GA. The only thing that will save aviation is further, drastic Tort reform. We need to limit lawsuits of ANY kind in aviation to 7 years

How would you protect the innocent against valid claims? Or do you aver
that no claims are valid?

Jose
--
You can choose whom to befriend, but you cannot choose whom to love.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Jose wrote:
In spite of GARA, liability is still the single biggest threat to
the success of GA. The only thing that will save aviation is
further, drastic Tort reform. We need to limit lawsuits of ANY kind
in aviation to 7 years

How would you protect the innocent against valid claims? Or do you
aver that no claims are valid?

Jose

Loser pays.