A aviation & planes forum. AviationBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AviationBanter forum » rec.aviation newsgroups » Piloting
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Another Ancient Military Plane Grounded



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #81  
Old December 25th 07, 01:29 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,851
Default F-15 grounding, was Another Ancient Military Plane Grounded

Matt Whiting wrote in
:

wrote:
Bob Noel wrote:
In article
,
Jay Honeck wrote:


9/11 illustrated how vulnerable we were to attack by air. Just
look how long it took to scramble *any* aircraft to intercept those
rogue airliners, even after NORAD was fully alerted.


9/11 illustrated how vulnerable we were to attack by air from a
handful of aircraft launched from US soil. And look at how little
actual damage was done.


9/11 illustrated what a bunch sheep airline passengers had become
until the second airplane hit.


Not just airline pax, but nearly all US citizens. Then again, this
wasn't accidental. The government and other "experts" have been
preaching for years the religion of passiveness and not to resistant
robbers, kidnappers, rapists, etc. They teach that to kids in school
and everyone else. That certainly isn't how I was raised.


Much as I hate to agree with anyone, ever, I have to agree with this.

the scary thing is that the more "disciplined" a culture is, the easier
it is manipulated into some kind o insanely agressive stance.

I can think of a couple of good examples from the last century alone.

A belligerent and healthy opposition is a healthy thing for a nation or
culture.


Bertie
  #82  
Old December 25th 07, 05:36 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Jay Honeck
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,573
Default F-15 grounding, was Another Ancient Military Plane Grounded

Agreed. *But NORAD's response time also highlighted how porous our air
defenses had become with the post-Cold War draw-down in our Air Force.


The air defenses weren't porous at all. *The threat didn't come from
outside our borders and that was the primary threat that NORAD was
created to defend against. *It was never meant to defend from an attack
from within using commercial airplanes. *Sheesh.


Missed the point completely -- again.

The meager response to the scramble alert is the point -- not the
basis of the threat. Whether they're responding to a C-130 full of
midgets flying out of Oshkosh, or 10 SU-35s coming in at mast-top
level down the Potomac, the fact remains that NORAD could not scramble
more than a tiny handful of aircraft in response.

Do a little reading on the subject -- NORAD didn't have another
squadron of F-15s on stand-by. What responded was EVERYTHING we had
in the sector. And it was pathetic.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"
  #84  
Old December 25th 07, 06:35 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,892
Default F-15 grounding, was Another Ancient Military Plane Grounded

Jay Honeck wrote:
Agreed. ?But NORAD's response time also highlighted how porous our air
defenses had become with the post-Cold War draw-down in our Air Force.


The air defenses weren't porous at all. ?The threat didn't come from
outside our borders and that was the primary threat that NORAD was
created to defend against. ?It was never meant to defend from an attack
from within using commercial airplanes. ?Sheesh.


Missed the point completely -- again.


The meager response to the scramble alert is the point -- not the
basis of the threat. Whether they're responding to a C-130 full of
midgets flying out of Oshkosh, or 10 SU-35s coming in at mast-top
level down the Potomac, the fact remains that NORAD could not scramble
more than a tiny handful of aircraft in response.


Do a little reading on the subject -- NORAD didn't have another
squadron of F-15s on stand-by. What responded was EVERYTHING we had
in the sector. And it was pathetic.


So your solution to airliner jacking is to have squadrons of fighters
around every city in the USA?


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.
  #85  
Old December 25th 07, 08:41 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Matt Whiting
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,232
Default F-15 grounding, was Another Ancient Military Plane Grounded

Jay Honeck wrote:
Agreed. But NORAD's response time also highlighted how porous our air
defenses had become with the post-Cold War draw-down in our Air Force.

The air defenses weren't porous at all. The threat didn't come from
outside our borders and that was the primary threat that NORAD was
created to defend against. It was never meant to defend from an attack
from within using commercial airplanes. Sheesh.


Missed the point completely -- again.


No, I got the point precisely. The point that you don't understand at
all the mission of NORAD.


The meager response to the scramble alert is the point -- not the
basis of the threat. Whether they're responding to a C-130 full of
midgets flying out of Oshkosh, or 10 SU-35s coming in at mast-top
level down the Potomac, the fact remains that NORAD could not scramble
more than a tiny handful of aircraft in response.

Do a little reading on the subject -- NORAD didn't have another
squadron of F-15s on stand-by. What responded was EVERYTHING we had
in the sector. And it was pathetic.


And there was no need to multiple squadrons on stand-by on the east
coast of the USA.

Matt
  #86  
Old December 26th 07, 12:08 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Big John
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 310
Default F-15 grounding, was Another Ancient Military Plane Grounded

On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 11:16:38 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip
wrote:

Jay Honeck wrote in
:

Agreed. *But NORAD's response time also highlighted how porous our
air


defenses had become with the post-Cold War draw-down in our Air
Force.

ah, Jay, NORAD never ever had the mission of looking inside our
borders un

til
AFTER 9/11. *NORAD didn't have the radar feeds necessary to look
across the NAS.


It's not the radar detection (or lack thereof) that raised eyebrows --
it was the inability to scramble *any* aircraft in a timely fashion
once the attack was acknowledged.

If that attack *had* been waves of bombers coming over the north pole,
America would have been defenseless.



you're as big an iiot as Anthony is.


Bertie

********************************
Bertie

I spent 15 years in the Air Defense Command and we furnished thousands
of fighters to NORAD for operations. Any aircraft we had on NORAD
alert were ARMED (including NUCLEAR Air to air Rocket with a Pk of
almost 100% that was test fired over a group (some friends of
mine)standing in the open at ground zero). Listening to the arm chair
experts on this news group who may have soloed a GA I have refrained
myself from trying to outline the old and current NORAD operations.

They wouldn't believe me so why try to educate them on the where's and
why's of the real world.

Keep on trying to keep the dishonest, honest Bertie.


Big John



  #87  
Old December 26th 07, 01:03 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,851
Default F-15 grounding, was Another Ancient Military Plane Grounded

Big John wrote in
:



you're as big an iiot as Anthony is.


Bertie

********************************
Bertie

I spent 15 years in the Air Defense Command and we furnished thousands
of fighters to NORAD for operations. Any aircraft we had on NORAD
alert were ARMED (including NUCLEAR Air to air Rocket with a Pk of
almost 100% that was test fired over a group (some friends of
mine)standing in the open at ground zero). Listening to the arm chair
experts on this news group who may have soloed a GA I have refrained
myself from trying to outline the old and current NORAD operations.

They wouldn't believe me so why try to educate them on the where's and
why's of the real world.

Keep on trying to keep the dishonest, honest Bertie.


OK, will do ,

And merry christmas to you.

here's to the day when the only thing the air force does is airshows!


Bertie
  #88  
Old December 26th 07, 01:23 AM
rotor&wing rotor&wing is offline
Member
 
First recorded activity by AviationBanter: Sep 2005
Location: florida
Posts: 38
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Honeck View Post

Do a little reading on the subject -- NORAD didn't have another
squadron of F-15s on stand-by. What responded was EVERYTHING we had
in the sector. And it was pathetic.
--
Jay Honeck
The only thing "pathetic" is your total lack of knowledge on the subject. You're just another "internet expert".

LOL
  #89  
Old December 26th 07, 02:27 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Matt Whiting
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,232
Default F-15 grounding, was Another Ancient Military Plane Grounded

Jay Honeck wrote:
Agreed. But NORAD's response time also highlighted how porous our air
defenses had become with the post-Cold War draw-down in our Air Force.

The air defenses weren't porous at all. The threat didn't come from
outside our borders and that was the primary threat that NORAD was
created to defend against. It was never meant to defend from an attack
from within using commercial airplanes. Sheesh.


Missed the point completely -- again.

The meager response to the scramble alert is the point -- not the
basis of the threat. Whether they're responding to a C-130 full of
midgets flying out of Oshkosh, or 10 SU-35s coming in at mast-top
level down the Potomac, the fact remains that NORAD could not scramble
more than a tiny handful of aircraft in response.

Do a little reading on the subject -- NORAD didn't have another
squadron of F-15s on stand-by. What responded was EVERYTHING we had
in the sector. And it was pathetic.


You may want to do a little reading on the subject. Here is a link to
get you started on the mission of NORAD prior to 9/11. It has changed
since then, but tracking and intercepting domestic flights wasn't a high
priority pre-9/11.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_A...efense_Command

Matt
  #90  
Old December 26th 07, 10:10 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,851
Default F-15 grounding, was Another Ancient Military Plane Grounded

Matt Whiting wrote in news:u_icj.1226$2n4.29086
@news1.epix.net:

Jay Honeck wrote:
Agreed. But NORAD's response time also highlighted how porous our air
defenses had become with the post-Cold War draw-down in our Air Force.
The air defenses weren't porous at all. The threat didn't come from
outside our borders and that was the primary threat that NORAD was
created to defend against. It was never meant to defend from an attack
from within using commercial airplanes. Sheesh.


Missed the point completely -- again.

The meager response to the scramble alert is the point -- not the
basis of the threat. Whether they're responding to a C-130 full of
midgets flying out of Oshkosh, or 10 SU-35s coming in at mast-top
level down the Potomac, the fact remains that NORAD could not scramble
more than a tiny handful of aircraft in response.

Do a little reading on the subject -- NORAD didn't have another
squadron of F-15s on stand-by. What responded was EVERYTHING we had
in the sector. And it was pathetic.


You may want to do a little reading on the subject.



If that's a bet, I'll take it.


Bertie
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
F-35: Second test plane powers up, but first plane stays grounded Mike[_7_] Naval Aviation 1 October 29th 07 09:40 PM
Science Group Wants New Airbus Plane Grounded Until Proven Safe wally General Aviation 3 April 29th 05 07:50 PM
Ancient VOR Transmitter ?? [email protected] Instrument Flight Rules 18 February 3rd 05 09:06 AM
Ancient VOR Transmitter ?? [email protected] General Aviation 19 February 3rd 05 09:06 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:03 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2025 AviationBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.