"The New Soldier" by John Kerry et al

"D. Strang" wrote in message
news:60gYb.130$Ru5.40@okepread03...
Is Bush's open support for the continued off-shoring of American
high-tech jobs to 2nd and 3rd world countries and example of Bush
putting the USA first?

It's not high-tech. What jobs are being lost, are jobs that Americans
don't want to do, and those jobs enrich our trading partners.

Like the 5000 software develpment positions that IBM is moving to India and
China?
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3717418/

Or *all* of Levi Strauss's plants in the US?

Naaa...those guys and gals didn't really want those jobs.

If we have all the jobs, who are we going to export to?

If we have no more jobs, what can we buy?

Pete

In article ,
(BUFDRVR) wrote:

Not only did most active military not love Clinton, most detested the
man
and couldn't wait for him to leave office.


And you know this since you're the self-appointed spokesman for the
active duty military...right?

During the Clinton administration I was at 3 bases, in 5 different commands
working with 3 uniquely different weapons systems and *everywhere* I went
there
was nothing but disdain for Clinton. Am I spokesman? Obviously not, but I'd
say
in my "travels", I hit nearly 75% of the USAF demographics and knew of *one*
person, Uno (interestingly enough a fellow B-52 pilot) who supported Clinton.
Every other person I met hated the man. I'd say that's a fair sampling of the
USAF. Additionally I spent a month at sea with guys & gals from the 3 other
services just prior to ALLIED FORCE, my experience was no different than the
USAF, complete disdain.

It's possible to support both, neither, or either
or.

So you admit you were a fool (albeit a lucky one) when you jumped to the
conclusion that I support Bush just because I don't support Kerry? Good,
progress.


Nope. You have constantly worn your political beliefs on your sleeve in
this n.g. No need for anybody to jump to conclusions.


I happen to support Mr. Kerry and know he will make a fine president
when we elect him in.

I'll bet he doesn't carry 10 states. He's got *a lot* of dirt on him and
unlike
the friendly confines of the Democratic party, the Republicans are just
waiting
to unload on him.


Sigh. That comment is very typical of you and the Republican party. You
can't stand on your candidate's record so your prime strategy is dirt.
Take your best shots. I shall be here to remind you of your comments in
eight months when Kerry is elected president.


I mean, that's not the case with me (I think
Bush
is the right man for the job at the current time),


What job is that?

POTUS

2.2 million unemployed people might disagree.


Sacrificing American lives under false pretenses?

What proof do you have he's done this? Ahh, I thought not...


It's will be a waste of time to hash that out now, but I think the
evidence is very clear that we were misled. We'll agree to disagree.


Caring more about spending countless millions of dollars in failed
nation building while ignoring the losss of 2.2 million jobs at home?

Bush didn't sign, or bless NAFTA, that was the Democrats, if you've got a
gripe
take it up with them. Jobs began leaving this country in mid-99 when NAFTA
took
hold. Blaming Bush for NAFTA is ridiculous.


The jobs I'm talking about are the white collar jobs at places like
Dell, HP, Cisco, Sun, SBC, Wells Fargo, etc. etc. Those jobs have gone
to places like India, Phillippines, and other countries with people
having English skills, but who can be hired cheaply. These are jobs that
have moved and continue to move out of the country starting only about
two years ago.



What exactly is he right for?

The economy

One of the worst economies with the highest sustained unemployment rates
in at least the last two decades.

and the War On Terror.


I attribute a professional military.....and not their chickenhawk CEO
for that.


What exactly would Kerry be good for?


Taking care of things at home and not starting unnecessary wars, for
starters.


And you know this, because in addition to being the supreme spokesman
for active duty military, you are also a political pollster very much in
tune with what a "growing number of Democrats"

No genius, I can read. Just pick up a newspaper or a news magazine. As
Kerry's
momentum builds, more and more Democrats are becoming publically concerned.
Hell, there's even a Democratic Senator from Georgia whose come out and said
that he'd vote for Bush before he voted for Kerry.

Their numbers are so insignificant to even warrant mention.



Even so, I could care less about party labels any more,
because they mean so little.

Sure you do.

That's right. I am independent.


I vote on the issues, and who I think will
best address them.

Sure you do.

That's right. That's why I twice voted for Pete Wilson for California
governor (one time of which Feinstein challenged him and lost).

As a disabled veteran, I put a lot of importance on
how a candidate treats his country's vets.

No candidate is ever going to say, publically, if he's going to cut VA
benefits. Clinton didn't, what makes you think Kerry will be any better?
Because he said so? ROFLMAO.........


I think his record on veterans issues is quite clear in his established
champion of vet causes. I invite you to seek commentary from your
nearest Disabled American Veterans (www.dav.org) chapter and ask them
about the state of VA funding today.



...
Every nation in the
world looks out for its own interests first, yet when the US does it, its
a
horrible thing.

Who said that?


The French and German governments and their people,

Are their governments people participating in this thread?


most of Asia (except
China
who seem to appreciate and understand our position...ain't that a kicker),


No China doesn't want to bite the hand that feeds it. We're their
biggest trading partner...although the trade ballance is heavily slanted
in their favor. They're not going to ruin a good thing and risk losing
hard currency they can use to builld up their country (including their
military) with.


Perhaps its our current world position, I don't know, but in
the wake of 9/11, we can't afford to worry about anyone ahead of
ourselves.


Yes, indeed....9/11 is the answer to everything.


Its not the "answer" to anything, but it sure is a question and your boy
Kerry
seems to think it was no big deal and that'll never happen again and we can
all
go back to our lives like it was 9/10/01. This view point scares the hell out
of me.

It might be scary if there was a grain of truth in it.


It's very tired to see right-wing syncophants to George Bush try to
paint anybody who doesn't support them or their incompetent president as
somehow equaling the support for somebody else.

Please, you where your DNC ticket on your sleeve. You complain about both
Bushs
without facing what Clinton did.


Because the topic area here is the upcoming presidential election of
which Mr. Bush will most lieky face off against Mr. Kerry. Clinton is
not in the election and has nothing to do with. Bush's father has only
been mentioned as a side-note and is not particularly relevant.



I don't look at parties

Riiiight..........

That must be why I voted for Pete Wilson.



--Mike

During the Clinton administration I was at 3 bases, in 5 different commands
working with 3 uniquely different weapons systems and *everywhere* I went there
was nothing but disdain for Clinton.

That certainly tracks my sense of the era. The most worrisome part of
the Clinton two terms was the feeling that the White House and the
military were at such odds that there was a smell of rebellion in the
air. It's not healthy that the military despise the president.

(It's not healthy that the Good People despise the president, either,
but at least they don't have tanks.)

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 06:29:08 GMT, "Pete" wrote:

Like the 5000 software develpment positions that IBM is moving to India and
China?

You are conflating your figures. IBM is off-shoring 3000 jobs and
adding 5000, for a net gain of 2000. That is pretty typical.

To be sure, not all of the 3000 will qualify for the 5000 jobs. It's
the dispossessed that Dean, Edwards, and now Kerry are tapping into.

This kind of creative destruction has been going on for over a century
in the U.S., and is the major source of its wealth today. In the 1930s
it was the New Hampshire textile workers who were hurting as their
jobs went to the South. More recently it was the Southern textile
workers who were hurting as their jobs went to Bangladesh.

Just make sure your kids have a good education, and they'll be better
off than you ever were.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

It's not healthy that the military despise the president.


I really don't think it matters much. No one liked Clinton, but when he ordered
Operation ALLIED FORCE, we seemed to do a "bang up" job.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

"Bob McKellar" wrote

Tax free? No FICA and no income tax? Paid in small bills?

This sounds great! Which IRS section allows such a good deal?

"hand harvesters" do not pay taxes, do not receive social security credits,
and do not have bank accounts.

http://www-agecon.ag.ohio-state.edu/...n.1/FarmLabor/

"Michael Wise" wrote

So all those Americans working in the tech support call centers like
Dell's, HP's, SBC, etc. really didn't want their jobs when they were
fired.

I suggest you take a few courses in economics.

A capitalist company (one who requires capital to expand or sustain
operations) has to cut labor costs. They can either do that by shrinking,
or by exporting the jobs.

When a company exports jobs to developing nations, they produce
trading partners, and they reduce the cost of labor. This reduced cost
of labor isn't stuffed into burlap bags, it is used to expand the companies
manufacturing, and produces high-paid manufacturing jobs.

Would you rather have minimum wage call center jobs, or would you
rather have double minimum wage manufacturing jobs?

Capitalists provide freedom, Socialists enforce serfdom.

"Pete" wrote

Like the 5000 software develpment positions that IBM is moving to India and
China?

Do you know anyone who uses IBM software? Let's get realistic here.

Or *all* of Levi Strauss's plants in the US?

I haven't bought Levi's since the early 70's. They are too expensive. If I
was the CEO, I would have ended the company years ago. With NAFTA
they now have a chance to get competitive again.

Naaa...those guys and gals didn't really want those jobs.

I feel for those workers who want to keep making things that people don't buy,
but my gut tells me that they need to educate themselves. Our city needs over
10,000 health-care workers. X-Ray techs, respiratory techs, nurses, etc, etc.
We should give 0% interest loans to students who need vo-tech training.

If we have all the jobs, who are we going to export to?

If we have no more jobs, what can we buy?

We have plenty of jobs. We don't have investment in training. If India will
provide trained workers, and the States won't; which decision do you think
a Capitalist will make, all other things being equal?

"Michael Wise" wrote

I happen to support Mr. Kerry and know he will make a fine president
when we elect him in.

I fear there's too many Oswald's and Sirhan's out there for that. Kerry has
been feeding hate groups for so long, that only the Communists and Pinko's
love him.

All you have to do is consider who will be in his Cabinet, and that should
send shudders down the spine. Your survival instincts should be kicking-in
about now.

"D. Strang" wrote in message
news:6SnYb.450$Ru5.434@okepread03...
"Pete" wrote

Like the 5000 software develpment positions that IBM is moving to India
and
China?

Do you know anyone who uses IBM software? Let's get realistic here.


Well yes actually , we us the Rational development tools for example
and DB2 is still rather heavily used for major database projects.

Keith