SPOT Satellite Messenger

Saw this at the end of my AOPA magazine this month:

http://www.findmespot.com/

Besides being a cheap insurance policy, I love the idea of nagging my
friends via email of my soaring adventures. Some adventure races have
the same type of email notification systems for participants to allow
friends to follow the racer's progress.

Just a bit too late for my Christmas list...

-bob

Hi,

I believe Tom Serkowski (5Z) is flying with one in Colorado. He has posted
information about it here recently. I recommend that you do a search of
this newsgroup for the details.

Merry Christmas,

Paul Remde

wrote in message
...
Saw this at the end of my AOPA magazine this month:

http://www.findmespot.com/

Besides being a cheap insurance policy, I love the idea of nagging my
friends via email of my soaring adventures. Some adventure races have
the same type of email notification systems for participants to allow
friends to follow the racer's progress.

Just a bit too late for my Christmas list...

-bob

Paul Remde wrote:
Hi,

I believe Tom Serkowski (5Z) is flying with one in Colorado. He has posted
information about it here recently. I recommend that you do a search of
this newsgroup for the details.

And a less specific search will yield several airplane newsgroups, where
you'll find the pilots have jumped on this product with great glee. I'm
sure the interest in Spot will increase greatly by March among glider
pilots in the Northern Hemisphere.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly
* "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

Eric Greenwell wrote:
Paul Remde wrote:
Hi,

I believe Tom Serkowski (5Z) is flying with one in Colorado. He has
posted information about it here recently. I recommend that you do a
search of this newsgroup for the details.

And a less specific search will yield several airplane newsgroups, where
you'll find the pilots have jumped on this product with great glee. I'm
sure the interest in Spot will increase greatly by March among glider
pilots in the Northern Hemisphere.


As well as I can tell, you presently can only track one plane at a time.
If that changes, a gliderport could have a screen showing the location
of all pilots flying that day.

I have a SPOT and I've played with it a little. I'll write up more on
my blog when I have time.

First to bring it down to reality, and deflate some misconceptions
about these.... "Track" as in thinking of seeing things on a map is a
generous description. There is no real time tracking as most people
would think of this. You can log into the user account select a list
of data points and choose to have the plotted on a Google map. There
is no real time update of new data arriving onto a map. The web site
was also logging you out with very short session expiry time, I've
reported this and they said they would look at it. There is no way to
see multiple messengers on one map or from within one account. The
only access to a map and raw tracking data is if the owner of the SPOT
messenger gives you access to their SPOT login account which is a
little cumbersome and you won't want to share this widely. Data
reporting points in tracking mode are about 10 minutes apart.

Lithium AAA batteries should last a few days in typical use, I've not
tried Alkaline, which will apparently work, obviously with much
shorter life, even if the manufacture says not to. No way to connect
to an external power source, but jury rigging power does not look too
hard. Getting the thing into track mode involves holding down a button
for a long time, but without any clear indication it has gone into
this mode vs. just going to send one message.

Pressing the "911" or "Help" buttons may not get a message out before
you crash and could apparently take 10-20 mins to get out, so you hope
in a bad situation that the device has a view of the sky post crash.
Device usability could do with some help in a next gen, web site is
hokey and primitive, I could not get the SMS messaging to work to my
AT&T phone but need to play more. Email worked fine for manual
position reports. You can't send a manual position report and have
automatic tracking on - so if you crew is out in the field and does
not have web access they can't get your location from automatic
position reports. Tracking has to be reactivated each 24 hours eve if
the device is left on. In club situations etc. it will be very easy
for people to not have these turned on to automatically track. It
looks like the tracking feature is an afterthought in several ways
which is a pity.

I strongly believe these are not replacements for a 406MHz PLB/ELT
(which I carry on my parachute harness already) if the crapola really
hits the fan I want an alert going to SARSAT and able to be homed into
by CAP and others. (It is disconcerting how little SAR related
information you are asked to provide to them, the NOAA forms for a
406MHz PLB/ELT have basic usage and SAR contact info, which is at
least reassuring. SPOT just has some names and telephone numbers for
them to try to contact. There appears no standard way to provide their
coordination center provider with your N-number etc., an apparently
silly oversite. A few simple text sentences kept in their database
could be very useful.).

OK that's the bad stuff overstated enough, otherwise it seems to
actually work and once you understand the limitations I believe these
devices have lots of potential. I'll wait and see how they really work
after a few months of serious flying in spring. I'll be using mine
especially when flying out of gliderports where the FBO has internet
access and can track me and I'll take any backup position/signaling
device I can flying in remote places like the CA/NV/UT great basin.


Darryl

On Dec 24, 9:07 pm, Greg Arnold wrote:
Eric Greenwell wrote:
Paul Remde wrote:
Hi,

I believe Tom Serkowski (5Z) is flying with one in Colorado. He has
posted information about it here recently. I recommend that you do a
search of this newsgroup for the details.

And a less specific search will yield several airplane newsgroups, where
you'll find the pilots have jumped on this product with great glee. I'm
sure the interest in Spot will increase greatly by March among glider
pilots in the Northern Hemisphere.

As well as I can tell, you presently can only track one plane at a time.
If that changes, a gliderport could have a screen showing the location
of all pilots flying that day.

On Dec 24, 11:33 pm, "
wrote:
[snip]
Lithium AAA batteries should last a few days in typical use, I've not
tried Alkaline, which will apparently work, obviously with much
shorter life, even if the manufacture says not to. No way to connect
to an external power source, but jury rigging power does not look too
hard. Getting the thing into track mode involves holding down a button
for a long time, but without any clear indication it has gone into
this mode vs. just going to send one message.
[snip]

Sorry that was a typo, the spot uses AA not AAA batteries. BTW there
is lots of space inside the case that they could have added four AA
batteries for very long life on Lithium or a reasonable life on
Alkaline. I suspect they went with Lithium for the long shelf life as
they see the device more as a PLB -- where as I am more interested in
it as a real-time tracking device. So things like external power would
be much more interesting for tracking, not nearly as interesting for a
PLB. External power (and ability to track without needing to reenable
this every 24 hours) might also get them into competing with more
expensive asset tracking solutions from Globalstar partners which they
probably want to avoid for business reasons.

Oh and another limitation - the SPOT messenger is incapable of
reporting altitude, the data is just not transmitted by the messenger
and their support folks have told me there is no way that this can be
changed. This is a pity as altitude could give you a clue how well
folks are doing in many situations.

Darryl

On Dec 25, 2:41 pm, "
wrote:
On Dec 24, 11:33 pm, "
wrote:
[snip] Lithium AAA batteries should last a few days in typical use, I've not
tried Alkaline, which will apparently work, obviously with much
shorter life, even if the manufacture says not to. No way to connect
to an external power source, but jury rigging power does not look too
hard. Getting the thing into track mode involves holding down a button
for a long time, but without any clear indication it has gone into
this mode vs. just going to send one message.

Well, I'm not as pessimistic as Darryl... :-)

So, here's my take on it...

The SPOT is designed for HIKERS, not pilots, but IMHO, it's an
inexpensive add on device at only $150 for the hardware and $150/year
for the full service.

An ELT, a 406 PLB, and SPOT each provide an independent and unique
service in case of a crash or emergency.

The ELT, *if it survives the crash*, will transmit a signal for
searchers to find you and the wreckage.

The PLB, *if you are able to activate it*, will transmit your
coordinates and summon help.

The SPOT, as I see it being used, will transmit my position every 10
minutes as I fly, and because I'm airborne, the connectivity to the
satellite phone network should be near 100%. If I become disabled in
any way, the SPOT will either stop transmitting, or will stop moving
and continually transmit my location. If my ELT is not triggered, and
I'm unable to activate my PLB (if I had one), then the last position
provided by the SPOT will give the rescue party a pretty good starting
place.

The website is a bit of a disappointment, but according to a response
from tech support, they are working on that and many improvements are
on the way. A top item is to be able to provide a way for friends to
view live tracks without giving them my personal login information.

The User's Guide claims 14 days battery life if in live tracking
mode. I don't know what they consider a day, but I would guess a pair
of batteries should be good for at least 20 five hour flights. A
quick online search indicates lithium AA batteries are not all that
expensive with 4 packs available for less than $10.

Since getting the unit, I've made a couple of local flights with it in
my shirt pocket and done some live tracks on a couple short drives.
Overall, it seems to be doing everything as advertised, and I can't
wait for a good soaring day or a long road trip.

Consider two recent fatal accidents:

A few days ago in NZ one of the competitors was quickly found after
the telemetry stopped. There's no mention of an ELT, and a PLB would
have been of no use. Replace the GP telemetry with SPOT live
tracking, and a similar outcome would be possible.

A couple months ago we lost a pilot in Colorado when he crashed
shortly after release. There was no ELT onboard, but the glider was
very badly damaged, so the ELT might not have survived. A lot of time
was wasted because the Civil Air Patrol searched much more territory
than necessary. A lost SPOT track would have helped narrow down the
search area.

So, just as with any other such device, it's not a cure all, but may
help with one aspect. And, I can still send my wife periodic position
reports when I make a flight far from home and there's nobody to relay
my position.

-Tom

Tom

You can normally spot the pessimists - they fly motorgliders :-)

I tried to say I was overstating the bad stuff.

The biggest problems with current 406/121.5 MHz ELTs is finding a
place for them - with a place for the antenna that will actually work
OK. Then there is the question of whether they will activate on impact
- a serious issue in general and I suspect even more so in gliders.
PLBs of course you need to be able to activate the PLB and have it in
a location with good transmission and ideally good GPS reception.

I look forward to a review of SPOT that Equipped To Survive
(www.equippedtosurvive.com) is supposed to be working on. I hope they
test the optional "911" and rescue coordination side of the service -
something that owners are not supposed to do.

I'd hate to see these things ending up pretty orange decorations found
years later at the site of a crash -- that to me means using them in
track mode and making sure people have Internet access to the track
data. I am interested in working with my local FBO and helping
encourage local glider pilots to try these. The real key to making
this work is having some simple procedures for the FBO to have SPOT
account access for each unit and the pilots ensuring they have working
batteries and the units are correctly in track mode. A round trip
check over VHF radio that the FBO is receiving track messages would be
a nice check before setting out too far from home.

14 days of battery life in track more will be great if we get it, I've
not been through one set of batteries yet but I've only used the
device for less than 8 hours. The most convenient and reasonable price
source I've found for energizer AA Lithium batteries is Amazon.com.
BTW in general it is a good idea to look at these (non-rechargeable
lithium iron disulfide) batteries for survival kit items like LED
flashlights, handheld GPS, VHF radios (with AA battery packs), etc. as
they have a very long shelf life, much more capacity than Alkaline and
better low temperature performance. But some electronics (e.g. some
cheaper LED flashlights/headlamps) can't handle the continuous high
power output.


Darryl

On Dec 25, 6:02 pm, 5Z wrote:
On Dec 25, 2:41 pm, "
wrote:

On Dec 24, 11:33 pm, "
wrote:
[snip] Lithium AAA batteries should last a few days in typical use, I've not
tried Alkaline, which will apparently work, obviously with much
shorter life, even if the manufacture says not to. No way to connect
to an external power source, but jury rigging power does not look too
hard. Getting the thing into track mode involves holding down a button
for a long time, but without any clear indication it has gone into
this mode vs. just going to send one message.

Well, I'm not as pessimistic as Darryl... :-)

So, here's my take on it...

The SPOT is designed for HIKERS, not pilots, but IMHO, it's an
inexpensive add on device at only $150 for the hardware and $150/year
for the full service.

An ELT, a 406 PLB, and SPOT each provide an independent and unique
service in case of a crash or emergency.

The ELT, *if it survives the crash*, will transmit a signal for
searchers to find you and the wreckage.

The PLB, *if you are able to activate it*, will transmit your
coordinates and summon help.

The SPOT, as I see it being used, will transmit my position every 10
minutes as I fly, and because I'm airborne, the connectivity to the
satellite phone network should be near 100%. If I become disabled in
any way, the SPOT will either stop transmitting, or will stop moving
and continually transmit my location. If my ELT is not triggered, and
I'm unable to activate my PLB (if I had one), then the last position
provided by the SPOT will give the rescue party a pretty good starting
place.

The website is a bit of a disappointment, but according to a response
from tech support, they are working on that and many improvements are
on the way. A top item is to be able to provide a way for friends to
view live tracks without giving them my personal login information.

The User's Guide claims 14 days battery life if in live tracking
mode. I don't know what they consider a day, but I would guess a pair
of batteries should be good for at least 20 five hour flights. A
quick online search indicates lithium AA batteries are not all that
expensive with 4 packs available for less than $10.

Since getting the unit, I've made a couple of local flights with it in
my shirt pocket and done some live tracks on a couple short drives.
Overall, it seems to be doing everything as advertised, and I can't
wait for a good soaring day or a long road trip.

Consider two recent fatal accidents:

A few days ago in NZ one of the competitors was quickly found after
the telemetry stopped. There's no mention of an ELT, and a PLB would
have been of no use. Replace the GP telemetry with SPOT live
tracking, and a similar outcome would be possible.

A couple months ago we lost a pilot in Colorado when he crashed
shortly after release. There was no ELT onboard, but the glider was
very badly damaged, so the ELT might not have survived. A lot of time
was wasted because the Civil Air Patrol searched much more territory
than necessary. A lost SPOT track would have helped narrow down the
search area.

So, just as with any other such device, it's not a cure all, but may
help with one aspect. And, I can still send my wife periodic position
reports when I make a flight far from home and there's nobody to relay
my position.

-Tom

On Dec 25 2007, 7:11*pm, "
wrote:
Tom

You can normally spot the pessimists - they fly motorgliders :-)

I tried to say I was overstating the bad stuff.

The biggest problems with current 406/121.5 MHz ELTs is finding a
place for them - with a place for the antenna that will actually work
OK. Then there is the question of whether they will activate on impact
- a serious issue in general and I suspect even more so in gliders.
PLBs of course you need to be able to activate the PLB and have it in
a location with good transmission and ideally good GPS reception.

I look forward to a review of SPOT that Equipped To Survive
(www.equippedtosurvive.com) is supposed to be working on. I hope they
test the optional "911" and rescue coordination side of the service -
something that owners are not supposed to do.

I'd hate to see these things ending up pretty orange decorations found
years later at the site of a crash -- that to me means using them in
track mode and making sure people have Internet access to the track
data. I am interested in working with my local FBO and helping
encourage local glider pilots to try these. The real key to making
this work is having some simple procedures for the FBO to have SPOT
account access for each unit and the pilots ensuring they have working
batteries and the units are correctly in track mode. *A round trip
check over VHF radio that the FBO is receiving track messages would be
a nice check before setting out too far from home.

14 days of battery life in track more will be great if we get it, I've
not been through one set of batteries yet but I've only used the
device for less than 8 hours. The most convenient and reasonable price
source I've found for energizer AA Lithium batteries is Amazon.com.
BTW in general it is a good idea to look at these (non-rechargeable
lithium iron disulfide) batteries for survival kit items like LED
flashlights, handheld GPS, VHF radios (with AA battery packs), etc. as
they have a very long shelf life, much more capacity than Alkaline and
better low temperature performance. But some electronics (e.g. some
cheaper LED flashlights/headlamps) can't handle the continuous high
power output.

Darryl

On Dec 25, 6:02 pm, 5Z wrote:



On Dec 25, 2:41 pm, "
wrote:

On Dec 24, 11:33 pm, "
wrote:
[snip] Lithium AAA batteries should last a few days in typical use, I've not
tried Alkaline, which will apparently work, obviously with much
shorter life, even if the manufacture says not to. No way to connect
to an external power source, but jury rigging power does not look too
hard. Getting the thing into track mode involves holding down a button
for a long time, but without any clear indication it has gone into
this mode vs. just going to send one message.

Well, I'm not as pessimistic as Darryl... *:-)

So, here's my take on it...

The SPOT is designed for HIKERS, not pilots, but IMHO, it's an
inexpensive add on device at only $150 for the hardware and $150/year
for the full service.

An ELT, a 406 PLB, and SPOT each provide an independent and unique
service in case of a crash or emergency.

The ELT, *if it survives the crash*, will transmit a signal for
searchers to find you and the wreckage.

The PLB, *if you are able to activate it*, will transmit your
coordinates and summon help.

The SPOT, as I see it being used, will transmit my position every 10
minutes as I fly, and because I'm airborne, the connectivity to the
satellite phone network should be near 100%. *If I become disabled in
any way, the SPOT will either stop transmitting, or will stop moving
and continually transmit my location. *If my ELT is not triggered, and
I'm unable to activate my PLB (if I had one), then the last position
provided by the SPOT will give the rescue party a pretty good starting
place.

The website is a bit of a disappointment, but according to a response
from tech support, they are working on that and many improvements are
on the way. *A top item is to be able to provide a way for friends to
view live tracks without giving them my personal login information.

The User's Guide claims 14 days battery life if in live tracking
mode. *I don't know what they consider a day, but I would guess a pair
of batteries should be good for at least 20 five hour flights. *A
quick online search indicates lithium AA batteries are not all that
expensive with 4 packs available for less than $10.

Since getting the unit, I've made a couple of local flights with it in
my shirt pocket and done some live tracks on a couple short drives.
Overall, it seems to be doing everything as advertised, and I can't
wait for a good soaring day or a long road trip.

Consider two recent fatal accidents:

A few days ago in NZ one of the competitors was quickly found after
the telemetry stopped. *There's no mention of an ELT, and a PLB would
have been of no use. *Replace the GP telemetry with SPOT live
tracking, and a similar outcome would be possible.

A couple months ago we lost a pilot in Colorado when he crashed
shortly after release. There was no ELT onboard, but the glider was
very badly damaged, so the ELT might not have survived. *A lot of time
was wasted because the Civil Air Patrol searched much more territory
than necessary. A lost SPOT track would have helped narrow down the
search area.

So, just as with any other such device, it's not a cure all, but may
help with one aspect. And, I can still send my wife periodic position
reports when I make a flight far from home and there's nobody to relay
my position.

-Tom- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Just a vendors point of view.

Spot looks like an interesting concept. I have advertised for 3
months on my website. Sales so far, two maybes.

Maybe interest will pickup in the spring. The vendor requires you to
buy in lots of 10 units.

Also your local outdoor sports store is alrealy discounting SPOT.

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

On Jan 3, 8:02 am, Richard wrote:
On Dec 25 2007, 7:11 pm, "

[snip]

Just a vendors point of view.

Spot looks like an interesting concept. I have advertised for 3
months on my website. Sales so far, two maybes.

Maybe interest will pickup in the spring. The vendor requires you to
buy in lots of 10 units.

Also your local outdoor sports store is alrealy discounting SPOT.

Richardwww.craggyaero.com

I brought mine in November at REI, from the first few units they had.
Talking to the sales staff there they seem to have lots of people
asking about them, for what that is worth. SPOT kind of missed the
Chrismas peak selling period by not having sales staff at places like
REI well trained, inventory in stores, lead advertising, media reviews
etc. in place, etc. It looks like SPOT is a *very* small organization
so its going to take them a while to get things going and I expect
this to slow their sales ramp a lot.

Darryl