This is why you should never trust your fuel gages

Mike wrote:
"Dale Scroggins" wrote in message
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"Mike" nospam @ aol.com wrote in message
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"Dale Scroggins" wrote in message
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"Mike" nospam @ aol.com wrote in message
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"Ron Garret" wrote in message
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http://ronsvideos.fliggo.com/video/uIgc0dP9

This video was shot in a Cessna 206 taking us to a game reserve in
South
Africa. Watch the fuel gage in the upper right corner.

This is typical for a Cessna and a few others where the fuel gauge
uses the same technology as a toilet tank float.

A fuel totalizer is a very nice thing to have.

Float-type sending units are, in fact, simpler than toilet tank
float valves, and more reliable. They work reliably for decades.
However, many have been in service nearly forty years. Eventually
the resistance winding will develop spots where the wiper doesn't
make good contact, and the gauge (U.S.) or gage (Brit.) will
fluctuate wildly for a few minutes, until fuel is burned off and the
wiper moves to a new location, then the gauge works normally again.
Simple and relatively simple to fix.

If what you say is true, why do quite a few relatively new planes
exhibit the same symptoms?


Do you believe fuel totalizers are more reliable? Or capacitance
systems? Do you trust totalizers totally?

I've flown lots of planes with totalizers and never seen a failure.
I've also seen lots of failures and gross errors in float type
systems (new and old), so in my experience, yes they are more reliable.

As far as your last question it appears to be argumentative. I could
just as easily ask you if you trust the standard Cessna fuel gauge
totally, but neither really deserves an answer.
I doubt my experiences are typical. Most of the fuel quantity and
totalizer systems I saw over thirty years weren't operating correctly,
and I was being paid to repair them. Age makes most indicating
systems untrustworthy. Having multiple systems is good, if they aren't
interdependent.

Agreed, and the best way to check them is simply to stick the tanks both
before and after a flight.

Even float rods on Piper Cubs and others hang occasional, or the
floats saturate and sink. Direct-reading sight tubes are probably
the most reliable indicators, but even those can become difficult to
read with age.

I don't trust any fuel indication system.

There is one fuel indication system that's reasonably accurate, and that
is the prop which quits turning when you run out. Where many people get
into trouble is they DON'T trust their fuel indication system until the
aforementioned one indicates zero. I use mine to cross check my flight
planning, and if they don't agree it's time to do something different.

I like my engine performance tables and a stop watch, Pretty accurate.

--

Regards, Ross
C-172F 180HP
KSWI

Ross wrote:



I like my engine performance tables and a stop watch, Pretty accurate.


That only works if you truly know how many gallons were in the tank at
takeoff.

Sam Spade wrote:
Ross wrote:



I like my engine performance tables and a stop watch, Pretty accurate.


That only works if you truly know how many gallons were in the tank at
takeoff.

Correct. also it is my plane so I know how long each trip was and I also
have a conservative factor. I get a "reset" each time I fill up. On long
trips I always start out with a full tank.

--

Regards, Ross
C-172F 180HP
KSWI

"Ross" wrote in message
...
Mike wrote:
"Dale Scroggins" wrote in message
...

"Mike" nospam @ aol.com wrote in message
...
"Dale Scroggins" wrote in message
...

"Mike" nospam @ aol.com wrote in message
...
"Ron Garret" wrote in message
...
http://ronsvideos.fliggo.com/video/uIgc0dP9

This video was shot in a Cessna 206 taking us to a game reserve in
South
Africa. Watch the fuel gage in the upper right corner.

This is typical for a Cessna and a few others where the fuel gauge
uses the same technology as a toilet tank float.

A fuel totalizer is a very nice thing to have.

Float-type sending units are, in fact, simpler than toilet tank float
valves, and more reliable. They work reliably for decades. However,
many have been in service nearly forty years. Eventually the
resistance winding will develop spots where the wiper doesn't make
good contact, and the gauge (U.S.) or gage (Brit.) will fluctuate
wildly for a few minutes, until fuel is burned off and the wiper moves
to a new location, then the gauge works normally again. Simple and
relatively simple to fix.

If what you say is true, why do quite a few relatively new planes
exhibit the same symptoms?


Do you believe fuel totalizers are more reliable? Or capacitance
systems? Do you trust totalizers totally?

I've flown lots of planes with totalizers and never seen a failure.
I've also seen lots of failures and gross errors in float type systems
(new and old), so in my experience, yes they are more reliable.

As far as your last question it appears to be argumentative. I could
just as easily ask you if you trust the standard Cessna fuel gauge
totally, but neither really deserves an answer.
I doubt my experiences are typical. Most of the fuel quantity and
totalizer systems I saw over thirty years weren't operating correctly,
and I was being paid to repair them. Age makes most indicating systems
untrustworthy. Having multiple systems is good, if they aren't
interdependent.

Agreed, and the best way to check them is simply to stick the tanks both
before and after a flight.

Even float rods on Piper Cubs and others hang occasional, or the floats
saturate and sink. Direct-reading sight tubes are probably the most
reliable indicators, but even those can become difficult to read with
age.

I don't trust any fuel indication system.

There is one fuel indication system that's reasonably accurate, and that
is the prop which quits turning when you run out. Where many people get
into trouble is they DON'T trust their fuel indication system until the
aforementioned one indicates zero. I use mine to cross check my flight
planning, and if they don't agree it's time to do something different.

I like my engine performance tables and a stop watch, Pretty accurate.

And if you're flying a 172, there's no reason not to like using that method
as it's pretty simple and relatively foolproof.

However, when you're flying an aircraft that has a much wider variance in
fuel burn rates depending on how it's configured, those figures get a bit
more complicated and it's nice to have some cross checking abilities.

"Ross" wrote in message
news
Sam Spade wrote:
Ross wrote:



I like my engine performance tables and a stop watch, Pretty accurate.


That only works if you truly know how many gallons were in the tank at
takeoff.

Correct. also it is my plane so I know how long each trip was and I also
have a conservative factor. I get a "reset" each time I fill up. On long
trips I always start out with a full tank.

Assuming you have long range tanks, using that method you could always just
use your bladder which is going to tell you to land long before your tanks
run dry.

On Dec 8, 8:35 am, Sam Spade wrote:
wrote:
On Dec 7, 10:20 am, Sam Spade wrote:

Ron Garret wrote:

http://ronsvideos.fliggo.com/video/uIgc0dP9

This video was shot in a Cessna 206 taking us to a game reserve in South
Africa. Watch the fuel gage in the upper right corner.

You might want to change that to "gauge."

Or not. Gage is a perfectly fine variant.

Say what?

gage [gayj] noun (plural gag·es) (archaic)

1.pledge: something that is given or left as security until a debt is
paid or an obligation is fulfilled

2.token of challenge: a glove or other object that is thrown down or
offered as a challenge to fight

3.challenge: a challenge to fight

transitive verb (past gaged, past participle gaged, present participle
gag·ing, 3rd person present singular gag·es) (archaic)

1.offer something as pledge: to offer something as security against a
debt or other obligation

2.BETTING offer as stake in bet: to
offer something as a stake in a bet

A dictionary will help:

From Merriam-Webster:

Main Entry:
gauge
Variant(s):
also gage \ˈg�j\
Function:
noun

2: an instrument for or a means of measuring or testing:

Furthermo Many Cessna Information Manuals also use this spelling.
You can too.

wrote:


A dictionary will help:

From Merriam-Webster:

Main Entry:
gauge
Variant(s):
also gage \ˈg�j\
Function:
noun

2: an instrument for or a means of measuring or testing:

Furthermo Many Cessna Information Manuals also use this spelling.
You can too.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gage

Mike wrote:
"Ross" wrote in message
news
Sam Spade wrote:
Ross wrote:



I like my engine performance tables and a stop watch, Pretty accurate.


That only works if you truly know how many gallons were in the tank
at takeoff.

Correct. also it is my plane so I know how long each trip was and I
also have a conservative factor. I get a "reset" each time I fill up.
On long trips I always start out with a full tank.

Assuming you have long range tanks, using that method you could always
just use your bladder which is going to tell you to land long before
your tanks run dry.

No I do not have long range tanks, but I know what you mean. I am ready
to set down after 2.5 hours anyway. I have a friend that tanks up and
can go 8 hours in his A36 with tip tanks.

--

Regards, Ross
C-172F 180HP
KSWI

On Dec 9, 1:07 am, Sam Spade wrote:
wrote:

A dictionary will help:

From Merriam-Webster:

Main Entry:
gauge
Variant(s):
also gage \ˈg�j\
Function:
noun

2: an instrument for or a means of measuring or testing:

Furthermo Many Cessna Information Manuals also use this spelling.
You can too.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gage

Dude! Give it up:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gauge%5B1%5D

Also, have you ever flown a Cessna? Open the POH for crying out loud.

wrote in message
...
On Dec 9, 1:07 am, Sam Spade wrote:
wrote:

A dictionary will help:

From Merriam-Webster:

Main Entry:
gauge
Variant(s):
also gage \ˈg�j\
Function:
noun

2: an instrument for or a means of measuring or testing:

Furthermo Many Cessna Information Manuals also use this spelling.
You can too.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gage

Dude! Give it up:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gauge%5B1%5D

Also, have you ever flown a Cessna? Open the POH for crying out loud.

I just checked a few of mine. Back in the 60's when they were known as
"Owner's Manual" the word "gage" is used. As late as the 80's, they were
still using "gage" in the POH. I have a very recent one, but it's for a
G1000, so no gauges (or gages), just "indicators".