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Wing Contour?



 
 
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  #11  
Old August 1st 19, 08:07 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
GliderCZ
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Default Wing Contour?

On Tuesday, July 30, 2019 at 9:00:34 PM UTC-7, wrote:
Can anyone tell me specifically how to tell how closely a wing is following its intended shape or to know if it has "issues"? Also, if I'm sanding, polishing or refinishing it, how do I accurately correct for any deficiencies? Asking for a friend... : )


Please see the linked facebook page from AlphaZulu Composites in Kingman, AZ: https://www.facebook.com/AlphaZuluComposites/

Scroll down a bit to see pictures and description of how Paul Gaines fabricated templates and refinished the leading edges on my Ventus 2c a few years back.

CZ
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  #12  
Old August 1st 19, 08:17 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
GliderCZ
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Default Wing Contour?

On Thursday, August 1, 2019 at 12:07:09 PM UTC-7, GliderCZ wrote:
On Tuesday, July 30, 2019 at 9:00:34 PM UTC-7, wrote:
Can anyone tell me specifically how to tell how closely a wing is following its intended shape or to know if it has "issues"? Also, if I'm sanding, polishing or refinishing it, how do I accurately correct for any deficiencies? Asking for a friend... : )


Please see the linked facebook page from AlphaZulu Composites in Kingman, AZ: https://www.facebook.com/AlphaZuluComposites/

Scroll down a bit to see pictures and description of how Paul Gaines fabricated templates and refinished the leading edges on my Ventus 2c a few years back.

CZ


Scroll down a bit further, and you'll see Paul also posted a short video
  #13  
Old August 2nd 19, 12:26 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Default Wing Contour?

On Thursday, August 1, 2019 at 1:12:02 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Thursday, August 1, 2019 at 12:50:22 PM UTC-4, wrote:
Just to clarify, the 1/4 inch ply is "rough cut" as closely as possible and the filler adheres to the wood and gives the smooth surface needed to re-profile? How far back above, and below the wing do you go for a glider you want to perform well?

Doug


You understood correctly.
First 10% or so. About 3 inches inboard and 2-1/2 outboard.
Purpose of the templates is to have finished wing with same profile it started with. "Normal" sanding will usually make the leading edge too blunt.
UH


I am interested in doing a resurfacing on a Libelle 201b. I have been loaned templates which appear to be well made, possibly water jet cut, about the size you describe. My wings, in the very leading edge portion are off(differently at different stations and on opposite wings) by as much as 1/4 to 5/16. I too have the spare bump. My plane thermals better to the left but shows no fall off in stall. I was expecting to sand and contour maybe 1/10 of an inch but what product is useful for 1/4 of and inch? I know, and have used Bondo to that depth on other things, but aircraft?
Thank you for the insight and expertise you have shown in the answers you have give.
  #14  
Old August 2nd 19, 12:35 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Charlie Quebec
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Default Wing Contour?

I had MDF templates made on a CNC laser cutter, they cost $30 Australian each.
In my case, the templates were for measuring control deflections, so were one piece.
Particularly with the FX67 series airfoils, accuracy is critical.
Do not believe getting rid of waves will be all you need to do, despite some other posters.
Two local reprofiled a Mosquito and A mini Nimbus.
Mike Borgelt reprofiled the mini, and beat all the ASW20 to win an Oz nationals.
  #15  
Old August 2nd 19, 12:36 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
SoaringXCellence
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Default Wing Contour?

Several years ago (1970 time frame) Wil Schumann did a re-contour of the H301 Libelle leading edge. It required a bit of build-up with balsa to the extent you're talking about. My father glued the balsa directly to the existing surface and roughed it to shape, slightly undersized on the templates.

The Bondo was then added to create the actual contour and was followed by a thin fiberglass layer, filler and paint.

It lasted until I bought the glider in 2015(!) and it's still there with no damage, other than a few chips that needed to be refilled.

I think if you check back in the archives you can find an article describing Wil's process.

Mike B.

  #16  
Old August 2nd 19, 12:49 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Charlie Quebec
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Default Wing Contour?

One last point, most of the gliders that use the FX 67 series start with 67k170 17% thick, then at some point,
either from the root or the taper change at the aileron, transition to 67k150 15% thick at the tip.
This means that special care in needed to calculate the templates for intermediate stations.
My DG200 is 67k170 all the way. The 40 year old wing is very accurate still, something that cannot be said of
the PIK20 (one locally is 19% thick) the Mosquioto, and the Mini Nimbus, all of which seen to have suffered moulding errors.
As I recall, the reprofiled mentioned previously required special calculations for each individual aircraft.
  #17  
Old August 2nd 19, 01:06 AM
Delta8 Delta8 is offline
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Location: Pa.
Posts: 22
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by View Post
On Thursday, August 1, 2019 at 12:50:22 PM UTC-4, wrote:
Just to clarify, the 1/4 inch ply is "rough cut" as closely as possible and the filler adheres to the wood and gives the smooth surface needed to re-profile? How far back above, and below the wing do you go for a glider you want to perform well?

Doug


You understood correctly.
First 10% or so. About 3 inches inboard and 2-1/2 outboard.
Purpose of the templates is to have finished wing with same profile it started with. "Normal" sanding will usually make the leading edge too blunt.
UH
Next step ? So you then wax the female end of the template and fill the wing stations and place the template into the filler . Remove and that becomes a screed point between stations?

I've seen a recently refinished wing that had lots of small cracks every few inches on the leading edge . Bad filler product? Does the filler shrink ?
  #18  
Old August 2nd 19, 01:34 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bob Kuykendall
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Default Wing Contour?

On Thursday, August 1, 2019 at 4:26:22 PM UTC-7, wrote:
...I know, and have used Bondo to that depth on other things, but aircraft?
Thank you for the insight and expertise you have shown in the answers you have give.


There are a variety of fillers you can use. I'd suggest a mix of glass microballoons and laminating epoxy resin. Before you start the actual work, make a few test batches of filler to see how dry you can mix it before it does not spread properly. You want it as dry and light as you can practically work.

You'll want to sand the wing somewhere around 120 to 220 grit before applying filler to get a good bonding surface. Degrease the surface before applying filler with acetone to rid it of contaminants.

One common technique is to use your templates to cast in place a series of raised ribs of microballoons. Then apply and sand your filler between the raised ribs.

--Bob K.
  #19  
Old August 2nd 19, 02:07 AM
Delta8 Delta8 is offline
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First recorded activity by AviationBanter: Apr 2019
Location: Pa.
Posts: 22
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Kuykendall View Post
On Thursday, August 1, 2019 at 4:26:22 PM UTC-7, wrote:
...I know, and have used Bondo to that depth on other things, but aircraft?
Thank you for the insight and expertise you have shown in the answers you have give.


There are a variety of fillers you can use. I'd suggest a mix of glass microballoons and laminating epoxy resin. Before you start the actual work, make a few test batches of filler to see how dry you can mix it before it does not spread properly. You want it as dry and light as you can practically work.

You'll want to sand the wing somewhere around 120 to 220 grit before applying filler to get a good bonding surface. Degrease the surface before applying filler with acetone to rid it of contaminants.

One common technique is to use your templates to cast in place a series of raised ribs of microballoons. Then apply and sand your filler between the raised ribs.

--Bob K.
http://www.archive.jimphoenix.com/ar...UP%20wing.html

Is this the technique you were referring to ? Would be curious as to how his finish held up as it appears he used filler over old Gelcoat .

Also seems he went full chord with the templates . Overkill?

Bob
  #20  
Old August 2nd 19, 05:34 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Default Wing Contour?

Somewhere buried on www.jimphoenix.com are pictures of how he reprofiled the wings on a Nimbus 3. It’s worth taking a look.
 




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