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Tow plane types/mods for high density altitude glider towing



 
 
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  #11  
Old August 13th 19, 03:21 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
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Posts: 3,647
Default Tow plane types/mods for high density altitude glider towing

Uli,

It sounds like you're talking about Moriarty.* The Pawnee has 260 hp and
a CS prop, the Call Air has 290 hp and a fixed pitch prop, and the Ag
Wagon has 300 hp and a constant speed prop.

The Call Air, with its 94" prop is the noisiest of the bunch with its
supersonic tip speed, but most of the tow pilots don't reduce RPM on the
other two after getting safely airborne, resulting in about as much
noise.* I hate to think of all those 10-15 minute tows at full RPM.* I
wonder if the 5-minute limit is for RPM or for max power (which isn't
available at our altitudes).* When I was towing, I always reduced RPM
after we were both established in climb and I never got any complaints
from glider pilots.

On 8/12/2019 9:01 PM, AS wrote:
On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 9:38:43 PM UTC-4, son_of_flubber wrote:
What are your favorite aircraft types (and modifications) for glider towing in high density altitude and/or short runways?

I fly a heavy two-seater and have been towed in hot/high locations (DA around 10k') behind a Pawnee 235, CallAir A9, C188 AgWagon and a C185 SkyWagon. All four did a reasonable job with the C188 being the best. I think the Pawnee and definitely the two Cessnas had a constant speed prop and did actually better than the CallAir, which I was told had the most HP. I have no idea if any one of them had turbo-charged engines. A low wing, constant speed prop and lots of uumph seems to be the winning combination.

Uli
'AS'


--
Dan, 5J
Ads
  #12  
Old August 13th 19, 06:27 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
AS
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Posts: 405
Default Tow plane types/mods for high density altitude glider towing

On Tuesday, August 13, 2019 at 10:21:41 AM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
Uli,

It sounds like you're talking about Moriarty.* The Pawnee has 260 hp and
a CS prop, the Call Air has 290 hp and a fixed pitch prop, and the Ag
Wagon has 300 hp and a constant speed prop.

The Call Air, with its 94" prop is the noisiest of the bunch with its
supersonic tip speed, but most of the tow pilots don't reduce RPM on the
other two after getting safely airborne, resulting in about as much
noise.* I hate to think of all those 10-15 minute tows at full RPM.* I
wonder if the 5-minute limit is for RPM or for max power (which isn't
available at our altitudes).* When I was towing, I always reduced RPM
after we were both established in climb and I never got any complaints
from glider pilots.

On 8/12/2019 9:01 PM, AS wrote:
On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 9:38:43 PM UTC-4, son_of_flubber wrote:
What are your favorite aircraft types (and modifications) for glider towing in high density altitude and/or short runways?

I fly a heavy two-seater and have been towed in hot/high locations (DA around 10k') behind a Pawnee 235, CallAir A9, C188 AgWagon and a C185 SkyWagon. All four did a reasonable job with the C188 being the best. I think the Pawnee and definitely the two Cessnas had a constant speed prop and did actually better than the CallAir, which I was told had the most HP. I have no idea if any one of them had turbo-charged engines. A low wing, constant speed prop and lots of uumph seems to be the winning combination.

Uli
'AS'


--
Dan, 5J


It sounds like you're talking about Moriarty.

Yep - and Montrose, CO behind a beautiful C185. :-)

Uli
'AS'
  #13  
Old August 13th 19, 06:39 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 9
Default Tow plane types/mods for high density altitude glider towing

And the best towplane "modification" is a highly competent pilot in the tug.
  #14  
Old August 13th 19, 07:22 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bob Youngblood
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Posts: 79
Default Tow plane types/mods for high density altitude glider towing

On Tuesday, August 13, 2019 at 10:15:33 AM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
A 300-hp Ag Wagon works just fine at 9,500' density altitude.* Quite
comfortable for the tow pilot, too!

On 8/12/2019 8:58 PM, JS wrote:
On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 6:57:00 PM UTC-7, wrote:
Ag-Cat with Wasp Jr.!

Jerry Marshall's 400HP Brave!
He never did get the turbine Brave ready for towing.
Jim


--
Dan, 5J


Our situation here in Florida is quiet different because of our MSL. I have a Pawnee with 180 hp. It does very well for the most part. I also have a 235 Pawnee that is certainly more powerful, but After all is said I would rather have the 180 Pawnee for my personal use. We call it the Yellow Gorilla, and it has done a great job for our club.
  #15  
Old August 13th 19, 07:57 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Frank Whiteley
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Posts: 1,933
Default Tow plane types/mods for high density altitude glider towing

On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 7:38:43 PM UTC-6, son_of_flubber wrote:
What are your favorite aircraft types (and modifications) for glider towing in high density altitude and/or short runways?


Mark Keene once told me about towing with one of these at Uvalde making a 2000ft tow and return in under three minutes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIAI-Marchetti_SM.1019

28 variants on the US registry.

Frank Whiteley
  #16  
Old August 13th 19, 08:42 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 1,889
Default Tow plane types/mods for high density altitude glider towing

On Tuesday, August 13, 2019 at 2:57:24 PM UTC-4, Frank Whiteley wrote:
On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 7:38:43 PM UTC-6, son_of_flubber wrote:
What are your favorite aircraft types (and modifications) for glider towing in high density altitude and/or short runways?


Mark Keene once told me about towing with one of these at Uvalde making a 2000ft tow and return in under three minutes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIAI-Marchetti_SM.1019

28 variants on the US registry.

Frank Whiteley


I towed behind Mark in my '28. We had 2000 feet in 1:40. He told me he was using 40% power.
UH
  #17  
Old August 13th 19, 09:08 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
JS[_5_]
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Posts: 506
Default Tow plane types/mods for high density altitude glider towing

Regarding mods, the eTug deserves mention.
A Pawnee with a 350 cubic inch Chevy LS1 running on Mogas. Early experiments provided too steep a climb angle, so the original 4-blade prop was adjusted to decrease the climb rate. Now it has a different prop.
I've hooked many gliders up to eTug, yet to tow behind it.

https://www.glidingclub.org.au/membe...aircraft/etug/

These days a crate LS3 engine can be purchased for about $8000 and produces 430HP on Mogas. Car engines require a PSRU (speed reduction).

https://www.gmperformancemotor.com/p... AhPlEALw_wcB

Not much concern about shock cooling or leaded Avgas going away.
Jim
  #18  
Old August 13th 19, 09:25 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Nigel Pocock[_2_]
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Posts: 50
Default Tow plane types/mods for high density altitude glider towing

At 20:08 13 August 2019, JS wrote:
Regarding mods, the eTug deserves mention.
A Pawnee with a 350 cubic inch Chevy LS1 running on Mogas. Early
experiments provided too steep a climb angle, so the original 4-blade

prop
was adjusted to decrease the climb rate. Now it has a different prop.
I've hooked many gliders up to eTug, yet to tow behind it.

https://www.glidingclub.org.au/membe...aircraft/etug/

These days a crate LS3 engine can be purchased for about $8000 and

produces
430HP on Mogas. Car engines require a PSRU (speed reduction).

https://www.gmperformancemotor.com/parts/19370416.html?

gclid=Cj0KCQjwv8nqBRDGARIsAHfR9wC30A7wF3SFSrhYOBoL dkinr_7M
GZMpHxignUEhA1qfW5iBSSEbHwAaAhPlEALw_wcB

Not much concern about shock cooling or leaded Avgas going away.
Jim

A Zlin Z-137t would seam to do the job. This is turbine powered and
there is a video on U tube of one towing 9 x L13 Blanics in one tow.

  #19  
Old August 13th 19, 09:39 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Frank Whiteley
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Posts: 1,933
Default Tow plane types/mods for high density altitude glider towing

On Tuesday, August 13, 2019 at 1:42:14 PM UTC-6, wrote:
On Tuesday, August 13, 2019 at 2:57:24 PM UTC-4, Frank Whiteley wrote:
On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 7:38:43 PM UTC-6, son_of_flubber wrote:
What are your favorite aircraft types (and modifications) for glider towing in high density altitude and/or short runways?


Mark Keene once told me about towing with one of these at Uvalde making a 2000ft tow and return in under three minutes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIAI-Marchetti_SM.1019

28 variants on the US registry.

Frank Whiteley


I towed behind Mark in my '28. We had 2000 feet in 1:40. He told me he was using 40% power.
UH


Now that I think about it, I believe Mark said his tow cycle time was 2.5 minutes. Must have been an interesting view from the glider;^)

Frank
  #20  
Old August 14th 19, 03:26 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
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Posts: 3,647
Default Tow plane types/mods for high density altitude glider towing

Leave it to the Italians.* A Bird Dog with panache!

On 8/13/2019 12:57 PM, Frank Whiteley wrote:
On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 7:38:43 PM UTC-6, son_of_flubber wrote:
What are your favorite aircraft types (and modifications) for glider towing in high density altitude and/or short runways?

Mark Keene once told me about towing with one of these at Uvalde making a 2000ft tow and return in under three minutes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIAI-Marchetti_SM.1019

28 variants on the US registry.

Frank Whiteley


--
Dan, 5J
 




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