DUI's and flying?

"Richard Hertz" wrote in message
. ..
Nice. He says he has two DUIs and you label him as an alcoholic.
("practicing" or not)

How else would you label him?

Simon

Nice. He says he has two DUIs and you label him as an alcoholic.
("practicing" or not)


Thank you! I am by no means an alcoholic! That is a ridiculous assumtion to
make. I'm 23 and yes I made some really stupid choices but I'm not an
alcoholic. I got them at ages 19 and 21 when I was in a college town partying.

Actually the airlines have quite a number of alcoholic piltos...American
sent their problem drinkers to Hazleton Minnesota to a treatment center for
years and may still do so...
As to what this aspiring pilot can expect a lot depends on the timing of
the DUI's...If it's been a number of years ago that would work in his
favor...If it was 2 episodes close together at age 21 (or before) and he's
been sober since, that would be favorable togetting a medical
certificate....He should go the medical aviation examiner, complete the form
and DON'T LIE ! The examiner will take all the data and likely defer the
issuance to the FAA.
They will review it - it would expedite their handling of it if he has a
consulatation report from a alcohol/drug abuse counselor showing his
temperance and also participation in a 12 step or other "after-care"
program. If however there are ongoing issues, it would be more of a problem
in getting a medical certificate!
Anyone with a medical who gets convicted of DUI must notify the FAA as
well.
As for jobs - yes, the airlines and others are choosing from pools of
applicants...any blemish makes it more difficult...but entry level jobs-
cargo dogs, flight instructors, smaller corporate flight departments are
more commonly filled by personal recommendations and frequently
who-do-you-know and how well do they know you...so starting small, busting
your hump and staying sober will go a long way....eventaually as he has
hours and experience time will have passed... and his driving record may
have been cleanesed...can be done in some states after a period of
years...or governor's clemency (read political donation!) ...anyway, the
airlines generally only ask if you've had a DUI in the past X number of
years..generally 5 - 10...some sin committed in his youth and not repeated
in past 5 - 10 years may not be considered real relevant.
I know of someone who had 3 DUI's in his youth - saw the light, and now is
a first officer for a major carrier...it can happen - but it isn't easy!!

This is encouraging advice, thanks. I didn't expect to get so many replies. I
think I will take a couple lessons and see if it's truly something I want to
dedicate myself to (if I love it), and if I want it badly enough I will
overcome the added challenge. If I'm not that passionate about it then it
doesn't make sense for me to persue it. I figure by the time I am elligable for
a job as a pilot for an airline, it will be about 6 years since my last dui and
I can try and make some friends and connections in that time. What do you
think?

("S. Ramirez" wrote)
Nice. He says he has two DUIs and you label him as an alcoholic.
("practicing" or not)

How else would you label him?


I was 23 .....20 years ago.
(Don't make me go back to 1983. Please!!)

I have NEVER been pulled over ......on a "DWI".
I have NEVER had to put DUI on any paperwork.

I was (way way) stupid, too many times back in those days - and lucked out.

He got caught.

I'm here to tell you, being an idiot doesn't automatically make you an
alcoholic.


Now, stop being an idiot and go take some lessons. g

--
Montblack
http://lumma.de/mt/archives/bart.gif

I wouldn't. Why the alcoholic label?


"S. Ramirez" wrote in message
...
"Richard Hertz" wrote in message
. ..
Nice. He says he has two DUIs and you label him as an alcoholic.
("practicing" or not)

How else would you label him?

Simon

Now you've gone and done it. They are going to jump all over you.
According to the "experts" on "alcoholism" denial is a sure giveaway.

(sorry to be so cavalier about your predicament)

"Part86" wrote in message
...
Nice. He says he has two DUIs and you label him as an alcoholic.
("practicing" or not)


Thank you! I am by no means an alcoholic! That is a ridiculous assumtion
to
make. I'm 23 and yes I made some really stupid choices but I'm not an
alcoholic. I got them at ages 19 and 21 when I was in a college town
partying.

"Part86" wrote:

I have no flight experience, but I'd like to persue some kind of career as a
pilot. My problem is that I have two DUI's and I don't know how that effects
my opportunities.

Check this out if you need some inspiration:

http://www.avweb.com/news/profiles/182955-1.html

Anyone applying for a medical certificate from the FAA who has a history of
DUI's will have to disclose and comply with the following FAA Guidelines
(see below). Even though it wouldn't seem so, according to the FAA, having
2 DUI's is a history of potential abuse (they don't take DUI's lightly). I
have seen a couple of aspiring airmen overcome this hurdle. The FAA will
have you get an assessment as per the the attached FAA check list and have
the physician, psychologist or licensed drug/alcohol counselor send the
report to the FAA for review and final decision. A young man in your exact
same situation (couple of DUI's while a student at a party college) recently
got his FAA 2nd Class medical after undergoing the required assessment and
is now taking lessons. Go ahead and apply, it'll just take a while to go
through the paperwork. Good luck. Tailwinds.
____________ SNIP ________________

GUIDELINES FOR INITIAL ASSESSMENT OF AIRMEN WTH HISTORY OF MISUSE OF DRUGS
OR ALCOHOL

When the presence of a drug or alcohol problem is in question in an
applicant for airman medical certification, it is the responsibility of the
Office of Aviation Medicine to determine whether a history of substance
abuse or dependence does exist; and if it does, whether there is
satisfactory evidence of recovery.

If it is determined that a problem does exist, the Federal Aviation
administration requires that the applicant submit an evaluation by a
professional who has had special training in diagnosis and/or treatment of
addiction. This would include certified substance abuse counselors,
psychologists or psychiatrists, other physicians with special training in
addictive disorders, and members of ASAM (American Society of Addiction
Medicine).

The report should contain adequate information to determine whether a
problem exists, including significant negatives. This should include, though
not necessarily be restricted to the following information that may be
related to substance misuse.

PERSONAL:
Anxiety, depression, insomnia
Suicidal thoughts or attempts
Personality changes (argumentative, combative)
Loss of self esteem
Isolation

SOCIAL:
Family problems
Separation
Divorce
Irresponsibility
Abuse, Child/Spousal

LEGAL:
Alcohol-related traffic offenses
Public intoxication
Assault and battery

OCCUPATIONAL:
Absenteeism or tardiness at work
Reduced productivity
Demotions
Frequent job changes
Loss of job

MEDICAL:
Blackouts
Memory problems
Stomach, liver or cardiovascular problems
Sexual dysfunction

ECONOMIC:
Frequent financial crises
Bankruptcy
Loss of home
Lack of credit

INTERPERSONAL ADVERSE AFFECTS:
Separation from family, friends, associates, etc.

ADDITIONAL FACTORS:
Tolerance
Withdrawal
Loss of control
Preoccupation with use
Continued use despite consequences

When appropriate, specific information about the quality of recovery should
be provided, including the period of total abstinence. Summary, appraisal,
etc., with final diagnoses in accordance with standard nomenclature is of
particular significance.

Further information may be required, including treatment and traffic
records, psychological testing, as well as other medical and laboratory
records (random drug testing, liver profile, etc.). It may be appropriate
for the evaluator to interview or contact a significant other in the process
of this evaluation.

Nice. He says he has two DUIs and you label him as an alcoholic.
("practicing" or not)

Harsh, I know -- but here's how I figure this.

1. In younger days, I drove under the influence too many times myself.
2. I am not a "knee-jerk prohibitionist" when it comes to alcohol. At 45, I
still occasionally drive home after a few beers. Anyone who goes to a bar
with friends does, too.
3. My father-in-law and uncle were alcoholics. My sister is an alcoholic.
I have observed these people drink themselves into oblivion. I know for a
fact that all of them got behind the wheel occasionally when they should not
have.
4. None of them was ever convicted of ANY DUI tickets.

Given my background, I think I am at least semi-qualified to say the
following:

1. Part86 has TWO DUI tickets.
2. He/she's either incredibly unlucky, or he/she has managed to drive while
drunk worse than the three most hard-core, practicing alcoholics I know.

Perhaps the law enforcement folks just have it in for Part86 -- but I doubt
it. One conviction could happen to anyone -- but I think it's pretty safe
to say that anyone with TWO DUI convictions is a practicing alcoholic, and
needs to walk away from booze, pronto.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Thank you! I am by no means an alcoholic! That is a ridiculous assumtion
to
make. I'm 23 and yes I made some really stupid choices but I'm not an
alcoholic. I got them at ages 19 and 21 when I was in a college town
partying.

Listen, Part -- I live in a college party town. Every football weekend the
jails are chock-full of drunks, and I occasionally have to deal with the
results of their partying in my hotel.

Despite this, given the huge number of students involved (35,000 students),
the odds of any one person getting TWO DUIs around here are almost
unimaginably small. One conviction could happen to almost anyone -- but
two?

You may not be an alcoholic -- you may just be an unlucky party boy. Either
way, I sincerely hope you've learned to take it easy -- for everyone's sake.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"