DUI's and flying?

I've got to rebut this one. I had 2 dui's about 16 years ago. I wasn't then,
nor am I now, an alcoholic. I still have an ocassional beer, but since I've
been married and had kids I hardly ever go out, and then it's either a Xmas
party or rock concert. I still have about a 6 pack left from a case in the
fridge from my son's birthday party in October (early). Most of the ones
gone, I didn't even drink. When I got the DUI's I was single and going out a
couple of nights a week to play pool and socialize. You can't spend time in
a bar and stay under the legal limit.

I know the drunk driving school I went to also uses the "You're in trouble
from drinking, therefore you're an alcoholic" theory, and it may be true in
most cases, but it is certainly not a rule without exceptions. According to
tthem, I should be dead by now, or at least back in jail since I haven't
totally sworn off drinking. Yet I'm not either. I'm going on 20 years at the
same job (ugh), have a modest home and a wonderful wife and kids. I also
have a plane of my own. I can honestly say I've never been happier, yet I
can still enjoy an ocassional beer. All after 2 dui convictions.

Also, I had to get rides to work when I lost my license. One of my regular
rides would pick up a six pack and four nips at lunchtime. He drank 3 beers
adn 2 nips at lunch, 2 nips during work and downed the other 3 beers on the
way home. Ironically, I was never the least bit concerned with his driving.
My father, however, who hasn't drunk in decades, made me a nervous wreck.

Cleaning up my desk just now, I found the letter from the FAA after applying
for my first Class 3 medical. It says:

Our review of your medical records has established that you are eligible for
a Third Class medical certificate. You are cautioned that further alcohol
related offenses, or evidence of alcohol abuse may require re-evaluation of
your medical certification.

So, even after 11 years, it was a factor to them. I think part86 may have to
jump through a few hoops for a while, but it is certainly doable. I'd
recommend getting the medical up front, just so you know wether it's worth
going for now or waiting a few years.

mike regish

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:1D3yb.153952$Dw6.618565@attbi_s02...
Nice. He says he has two DUIs and you label him as an alcoholic.
("practicing" or not)

Harsh, I know -- but here's how I figure this.

1. In younger days, I drove under the influence too many times myself.
2. I am not a "knee-jerk prohibitionist" when it comes to alcohol. At 45,
I
still occasionally drive home after a few beers. Anyone who goes to a bar
with friends does, too.
3. My father-in-law and uncle were alcoholics. My sister is an alcoholic.
I have observed these people drink themselves into oblivion. I know for a
fact that all of them got behind the wheel occasionally when they should
not
have.
4. None of them was ever convicted of ANY DUI tickets.

Given my background, I think I am at least semi-qualified to say the
following:

1. Part86 has TWO DUI tickets.
2. He/she's either incredibly unlucky, or he/she has managed to drive
while
drunk worse than the three most hard-core, practicing alcoholics I know.

Perhaps the law enforcement folks just have it in for Part86 -- but I
doubt
it. One conviction could happen to anyone -- but I think it's pretty
safe
to say that anyone with TWO DUI convictions is a practicing alcoholic, and
needs to walk away from booze, pronto.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On 2003-11-28 18:53:32 -0800, (Koopas Ly) said:

To persue some kind of career as a pilot, you need to be a commercial pilot.

Trust me on this - when most people think of "commercial" pilots, they are thinking
"airline pilots". I know this because I get this all the time. I'm talking to friends or
relatives who know I fly for a living, or I'm introduced to someone who has just
learned that I fly for a living. Someone will invariably ask if I plan to "go commercial"
eventually. I've given up trying to explain that what I'm doing *is* commercial flying.
I just say, "Yes, I'm working on getting an airline job." I have learned that *that* is
the question they're asking.

And then you'll need to get your strength to resist up when you attend
any gathering of pilots.
--
Gene Seibel
Hangar 131 - http://pad39a.com/gene/plane.html
Because I fly, I envy no one.




two strikes against you in a three strikes your out world..

you can fly.. you have to stay stone sober clean...

obviously you have shown that you have no control when drinking..

hopefully these are far into the past.. but at 23.. only two years of legal
aged drinking and two DUIs.. do not hold much promise..

it's hard to say either way.. the only way to tell is to try and get a Class
III student medical certificate.. and make sure you list your past
convictions... it's better you fess up.. then for them to find it later on
their own..

BT
"Part86" wrote in message
...
I have no flight experience, but I'd like to persue some kind of career as
a
pilot. My problem is that I have two DUI's and I don't know how that
effects my
opportunities. Does anyone have any knowledge on this subject? I'm 23
years old
and I don't neccessarily have to be a commercial pilot, but I'd like to
fly.
Thanks

Rob Perkins wrote:

What do you suppose will happen if they ever change the health rules
for Private privileges to "driver's license" medicals?

The ice skating rink in Hell will open up the next day.

George Patterson
Some people think they hear a call to the priesthood when what they really
hear is a tiny voice whispering "It's indoor work with no heavy lifting".

Part86 wrote:

This is encouraging advice, thanks. I didn't expect to get so many replies. I
think I will take a couple lessons and see if it's truly something I want to
dedicate myself to (if I love it), and if I want it badly enough I will
overcome the added challenge. If I'm not that passionate about it then it
doesn't make sense for me to persue it. I figure by the time I am elligable for
a job as a pilot for an airline, it will be about 6 years since my last dui and
I can try and make some friends and connections in that time. What do you
think?

Sounds like the right approach to me.

George Patterson
Some people think they hear a call to the priesthood when what they really
hear is a tiny voice whispering "It's indoor work with no heavy lifting".

Listen, Jay-- It sounds like you have issues with people who drink alcohol.
Your rants about drinking have no bearing on this person's question.
Instead of keeping quiet you chose to jump all over him.

I sincerely hope you learn to take it easy posting to this board -- for
everyone's sake.


"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:VK3yb.351564$Tr4.1044549@attbi_s03...
Thank you! I am by no means an alcoholic! That is a ridiculous
assumtion
to
make. I'm 23 and yes I made some really stupid choices but I'm not an
alcoholic. I got them at ages 19 and 21 when I was in a college town
partying.

Listen, Part -- I live in a college party town. Every football weekend
the
jails are chock-full of drunks, and I occasionally have to deal with the
results of their partying in my hotel.

Despite this, given the huge number of students involved (35,000
students),
the odds of any one person getting TWO DUIs around here are almost
unimaginably small. One conviction could happen to almost anyone -- but
two?

You may not be an alcoholic -- you may just be an unlucky party boy.
Either
way, I sincerely hope you've learned to take it easy -- for everyone's
sake.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

I figured there was some story about you and drinking and alcoholics - Any
time there is such a reaction (just like your Bible beater issue)

On this I will have to say you are full of crap. You know nothing about the
circumstances and should not venture to say that you know what this person
should do about drinking or not drinking.

that is the problem with the internet. Everyone is "semi-qualified" to say
anything - whether it is a rant about religion or politics or drinking -
even on an aviation newsgroup.

For someone in the services industry you seem to be a little too intolerant.



"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:1D3yb.153952$Dw6.618565@attbi_s02...
Nice. He says he has two DUIs and you label him as an alcoholic.
("practicing" or not)

Harsh, I know -- but here's how I figure this.

1. In younger days, I drove under the influence too many times myself.
2. I am not a "knee-jerk prohibitionist" when it comes to alcohol. At 45,
I
still occasionally drive home after a few beers. Anyone who goes to a bar
with friends does, too.
3. My father-in-law and uncle were alcoholics. My sister is an alcoholic.
I have observed these people drink themselves into oblivion. I know for a
fact that all of them got behind the wheel occasionally when they should
not
have.
4. None of them was ever convicted of ANY DUI tickets.

Given my background, I think I am at least semi-qualified to say the
following:

1. Part86 has TWO DUI tickets.
2. He/she's either incredibly unlucky, or he/she has managed to drive
while
drunk worse than the three most hard-core, practicing alcoholics I know.

Perhaps the law enforcement folks just have it in for Part86 -- but I
doubt
it. One conviction could happen to anyone -- but I think it's pretty
safe
to say that anyone with TWO DUI convictions is a practicing alcoholic, and
needs to walk away from booze, pronto.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Richard Hertz" wrote

On this I will have to say you are full of crap.

\Perhaps he has a problem with people who have so little control, that they
continue to drink and drive.

You know nothing about the
circumstances and should not venture to say that you know what this person
should do about drinking or not drinking.

YES, HE CAN VENTURE TO SAY THAT HE SHOULD NOT DRINK AND DRIVE!

One DUI is a mistake.
Two, is an indication of a person without self discipline, or very
immature, or an indication of a person with an alcohol problem.

For someone in the services industry you seem to be a little too
intolerant.

Perhaps his position lets him see many too many people with alcohol
problems.

Where have you been the last decade or so? Have you not realized that there
is little tolerance for people who drink and drive?

To the original poster: Go ahead and try to do the flying thing. Be aware,
that if you did not change your ways, you will eventually screw up, and be
slapped backwards, all the way to yesterday, if there is another DUI.

I sincerely wish you good luck!
--
Jim in NC

I didn't intend to have my post fuel an argument about alcoholism but some of
the responses have been really ignorant.

If you think it's logical to associate how many times someone has been caught
drinking while driving with how much they actually do it then you have a
serious judgement problem.

My friend IS an alcoholic. He drives drunk every night after 5 shots minimum.
He's been pulled over 4 times and been let go. He has no DUI's. Now that is
good luck. I have the opposite luck. My second dui was the first and only time
I drank before driving since my first one. The cop was waiting in the parking
lot of teh bar for it to close (can you say entrapment?).

**** happens sometimes! I drink maybe once every two weeks. Maybe some may
consider that alcohol abuse but I don't.

Thanks to those who stayed on topic and gave me some helpful advice I
appreciate it.

Check this out if you need some inspiration:

http://www.avweb.com/news/profiles/182955-1.html

Thanks!