IR checkrides

Just wondering whether IR checkrides can be carried out in real IMC.

Not being from the US, some States must have far worse weather than others
and so I kinda assume that if its IMC weather on the day of the checkride
then its done in IMC.

I must admit that I wanted to have a checkride then doing it in IMC would be
my preference. For a start it would be more comfortable than wearing a hood
and be distracted by the effort of trying not to look. It might also give
the examiner something more to concentrate on too.

A checkride passed in IMC must be a big confidence booster.

Phil

On Sat, 6 Dec 2003 23:18:19 -0000, "Phil McAverty"
wrote:

Just wondering whether IR checkrides can be carried out in real IMC.

Not being from the US, some States must have far worse weather than others
and so I kinda assume that if its IMC weather on the day of the checkride
then its done in IMC.

I must admit that I wanted to have a checkride then doing it in IMC would be
my preference. For a start it would be more comfortable than wearing a hood
and be distracted by the effort of trying not to look. It might also give
the examiner something more to concentrate on too.

A checkride passed in IMC must be a big confidence booster.

Phil


Many examiners will not do an IR checkride in IMC. I believe in
order to do so, the examiner would be considered PIC, since you'd need
to file on his ticket.
Also certain manuvours will be more difficult to accomidate under
IMC (i.e. unusual attitudes: I believe you'd need to request a block
clearance to pull it off)

Your best best is to call your examiner ahead of time and get his
opinion.

Marcus

No, they have to be done in VFR.

There's several reasons for this. One of them is that some of the tasks
required (like unsual attitudes) would require a block altitude clearance and
clearance to deviate from an assigned heading. Obviously in busy terminal
airspace that could be difficult to do.

On the legal side, the FAA requires the inspector or DE to make it clear to the
applicant that he or she is the pilot in command, not the person giving the
checkride. That being the case, since the applicant is not instrument rated he
or she can not act as PIC of an aircraft operating under IFR.

Dave Reinhart


Phil McAverty wrote:

Just wondering whether IR checkrides can be carried out in real IMC.

Not being from the US, some States must have far worse weather than others
and so I kinda assume that if its IMC weather on the day of the checkride
then its done in IMC.

I must admit that I wanted to have a checkride then doing it in IMC would be
my preference. For a start it would be more comfortable than wearing a hood
and be distracted by the effort of trying not to look. It might also give
the examiner something more to concentrate on too.

A checkride passed in IMC must be a big confidence booster.

Phil

"David Reinhart" wrote in message
...
No, they have to be done in VFR.

There's several reasons for this. One of them is that some of the tasks
required (like unsual attitudes) would require a block altitude clearance
and
clearance to deviate from an assigned heading. Obviously in busy terminal
airspace that could be difficult to do.

On the legal side, the FAA requires the inspector or DE to make it clear
to the
applicant that he or she is the pilot in command, not the person giving
the
checkride. That being the case, since the applicant is not instrument
rated he
or she can not act as PIC of an aircraft operating under IFR.

Thanks, that all seems to make sense.

My next question, which State has the smoothest air, you know the type that
makes you feel as if you are gliding on glass.

"David Reinhart" wrote:

No, they have to be done in VFR.

There exist counterexamples.

My own instrument check ride was conducted mostly under IFR. We were in
visual flight conditions -- perhaps not always legally VMC, but that's not
relevant to the legalities of flying under IFR.


There's several reasons for this. One of them is that some of the tasks
required (like unsual attitudes) would require a block altitude clearance and
clearance to deviate from an assigned heading. Obviously in busy terminal
airspace that could be difficult to do.

We did cancel IFR for this purpose, but that was only about five minutes out
of a check ride that ran between 1.5 and 2.0 hours.


On the legal side, the FAA requires the inspector or DE to make it clear
to the applicant that he or she is the pilot in command, not the person
giving the checkride. That being the case, since the applicant is not
instrument rated he or she can not act as PIC of an aircraft operating
under IFR.

On the legal side, who would be the PIC for a Private check ride? Once
again the applicant is not technically qualified. It would be quite a
contradiction to say that a DE is PIC for the Private ride but not for the
Instrument ride.

Phil McAverty wrote:

Just wondering whether IR checkrides can be carried out in real IMC.

Not being from the US, some States must have far worse weather than others
and so I kinda assume that if its IMC weather on the day of the checkride
then its done in IMC.

I must admit that I wanted to have a checkride then doing it in IMC would be
my preference. For a start it would be more comfortable than wearing a hood
and be distracted by the effort of trying not to look. It might also give
the examiner something more to concentrate on too.

A checkride passed in IMC must be a big confidence booster.

Phil



I'm sure it could be done, at least if you did all your air work on top
VFR. But it would be so impractical, I doubt anyone would do it.

John Roncallo

Read 61.47(b). You can try to talk the DE into being PIC...good luck.

Bob Gardner

"Phil McAverty" wrote in message
...
Just wondering whether IR checkrides can be carried out in real IMC.

Not being from the US, some States must have far worse weather than others
and so I kinda assume that if its IMC weather on the day of the checkride
then its done in IMC.

I must admit that I wanted to have a checkride then doing it in IMC would
be
my preference. For a start it would be more comfortable than wearing a
hood
and be distracted by the effort of trying not to look. It might also give
the examiner something more to concentrate on too.

A checkride passed in IMC must be a big confidence booster.

Phil

On 2003-12-06 15:18:19 -0800, "Phil McAverty" said:

Just wondering whether IR checkrides can be carried out in real IMC.

Unless something has changed recently, yes they can. But in general,
it's probably not going to happen.

A friend of mine used to be an examiner. She told me that examiners
are officially encouraged not to give checkrides in IMC. She went against
that advice and an applicant show her just how messed up he could get.
She decided not to do checkrides in IMC after that.

--
Larry Fransson
Seattle, WA

"Larry Fransson" wrote in message
news:2003120623064950073%lfransson@comcastnet...
On 2003-12-06 15:18:19 -0800, "Phil McAverty" said:

Just wondering whether IR checkrides can be carried out in real IMC.

Unless something has changed recently, yes they can. But in general,
it's probably not going to happen.

A friend of mine used to be an examiner. She told me that examiners
are officially encouraged not to give checkrides in IMC. She went against
that advice and an applicant show her just how messed up he could get.
She decided not to do checkrides in IMC after that.

That seems to be the best reason of all for doing checkrides in IMC. Seems
to be a dumb policy to do a checkride in VMC and then letting them go off
into IMC.

I have a UK IMC rating which involves 15 hours of Instrument training. I
hardly use it except to do a bit of VMC on top.

The best thing I ever got out of the training was that

a) 15 hours training showed me how little ability I really had and how
deadly the IMC environment was,

b) There is a world of difference between passing the checkride and using
the rating.

I fly for fun not to scare the s**t out of myself so flying in IMC falls
into the "not fun" end of the spectrum.

IMC in uncontrolled airspace is another drawback and with class A airspace
here beginning at surface level in some places (EGLL) and other class A at
FL35 it is hard to fly on top. Admitted in UK there is no land higher than
4000 feet but we are all compressed into a narrow band, not much bigger than
Florida.


I could get to enjoy IMC flying but I would need to be doing it most of the
time; and to do that means being paid to do it. But then when there are
schedules to keep etc I suppose it become like many jobs, a bit of a grind.

The irony is that a FAA/IR will qualify for a UK IMC rating with only
limited privileges in controlled airspace (class D only). The FAA/IR pilot
can file IFR and fly in class A in the UK if the aircraft is US registered
but not if the aircraft is UK registered.

It was only until recently that ua US IR pilot had to do 55 hours training
to convert to a UK IR

Phil McAverty wrote:

That seems to be the best reason of all for doing checkrides in IMC. Seems
to be a dumb policy to do a checkride in VMC and then letting them go off
into IMC.

In the USA, there are many places that rarely if ever ever see IMC. Such a
policy would prohibit check rides there.

The irony is that a FAA/IR will qualify for a UK IMC rating with only
limited privileges in controlled airspace (class D only). The FAA/IR pilot
can file IFR and fly in class A in the UK if the aircraft is US registered
but not if the aircraft is UK registered.

Where is Class A airspace used in the UK? In the US, it is only 18,000+ ft MSL,
but I understand that it is used differently in other jurisdictions.