GP Gliders

Dan, I found the same camaraderie amongst the pilots at the 13.5m WGCs, especially the recent one in Hungary.

Hi Tony,
I sure hope the class catches on. Only problem being the ships are now pretty pricey. And if the whole class is going to have to be motorized, that will in essence financially exclude the great majority of us guys. I just feel bad about not having a true "one-design" class of racing. They picked the wrong machine. I think if they had picked the Russia AC series, it might have caught on here in the states, as that machine performs pretty good and was definitely affordable.

On Thursday, January 4, 2018 at 3:01:36 PM UTC-5, wrote:
Hi Tony,
I sure hope the class catches on. Only problem being the ships are now pretty pricey. And if the whole class is going to have to be motorized, that will in essence financially exclude the great majority of us guys. I just feel bad about not having a true "one-design" class of racing. They picked the wrong machine. I think if they had picked the Russia AC series, it might have caught on here in the states, as that machine performs pretty good and was definitely affordable.

The PW-5 World class gliders that came to the US were mostly not bought by people who wanted them as one design class competition machines. Most that bought them did so because they were inexpensive, light to assemble, and easy to fly. All good attributes that make them good to own and fly. Kind of a modern 1-26.
Want a one deign class today with plenty of ships in the fleet that meet the above criteria? Start a Std Libelle class.
Just Musing
UH

Hi UH, actually, a standard libelle class could probably work lol.

I guess the bigger unstated problem is the vast majority of fliers are not really interested in going anywhere xc or even fewer have a passion for racing. At my club here we have three 201's, and a 301. None of the guys fly more than a couple miles away from home even on a booming day.
My last club had a nice astir 102, and guys had a mini nimbus and a LS-1. None of these three ships has put up a xc flight in ages. I guess the guys are happy to just float around at the top of the thermals. To me, that just breeds bad habits lol. But to each their own is how it goes.

On Thursday, January 4, 2018 at 12:03:04 PM UTC-7, wrote:
I was hoping the 13.5 meter class was going to be this way, but it has gone exactly like the other classes.

Club class should be first generation type Std. Class sailplanes.

Std. Libelle
ASW 15
LS 1
Std. Cirrus
15 meter Phoebus A/B
STD. Jantar 1/2
Astir CS


Plenty of affordable examples available and the performance is close enough to handicap effectively.

Still a dreamer.

Mike

On Thu, 04 Jan 2018 13:43:19 -0800, Mike C wrote:

On Thursday, January 4, 2018 at 12:03:04 PM UTC-7,
wrote:
I was hoping the 13.5 meter class was going to be this way, but it has
gone exactly like the other classes.

Club class should be first generation type Std. Class sailplanes.

Std. Libelle ASW 15 LS 1 Std. Cirrus 15 meter Phoebus A/B STD. Jantar
1/2 Astir CS


Plenty of affordable examples available and the performance is close
enough to handicap effectively.

And equally important: a small enough performance spread to keep tasking
from driving the task-setter to drink.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie
| dot org

At 21:43 04 January 2018, Mike C wrote:
On Thursday, January 4, 2018 at 12:03:04 PM UTC-7,
wrote:
I was hoping the 13.5 meter class was going to be this way, but
it has
gone exactly like the other classes.

Club class should be first generation type Std. Class sailplanes.

Std. Libelle
ASW 15
LS 1
Std. Cirrus
15 meter Phoebus A/B
STD. Jantar 1/2
Astir CS


Plenty of affordable examples available and the performance is
close enough
to handicap effectively.

Still a dreamer.

Mike



The Ka.6 is the first generation of Standard Class gliders. Those
that you mention are second generation, (but the first glass
ones...) Heinz Huth of Germany won two WGCs in STD Class in
a Ka.6CR in 1960 and 1963.

RO

Want a one deign class today with plenty of ships in the fleet that meet the above criteria? Start a Std Libelle class.
Just Musing
UH

Hmmmm. I like it.

- Lots of gliders (600 manufactured, approx. 95 of which show up in the FAA registry in the U.S.)
- Reasonably inexpensive
- In good repair (the gel coat on 201s seems to last a looooong time)
- Still supported (by Streinfeneder)
- Little to no performance difference across versions (the later ones have water, top-surface-only dive brakes, foam core wings, and a bigger horizontal stab but I never saw any difference in performance, nor did the low and high canopies seem to matter). The fillets, winglets, etc., that we see on European Club Class 201s haven't showed up much here.
- A joy to fly
- Light and easy to assemble (my first solo-rigging experiments)
- Performance sufficient that pilots won't feel like they're taking an alarming step down
- Performance sufficient that owners will be happy flying them outside of contests

Admittedly I'm biased. I flew a 201 competitively for seven years and loved every minute of it. I was not always so happy flying a 1-26 before that; I'm not Ron Schwartz and just found it too difficult to stay airborne at times. I feel like I learned how to fly fast more quickly once I hopped into the 201. In it, a mistake meant I was slow. In the 1-26, a mistake put me on the ground, usually for the rest of the day.

I've owned my ASW 24 for 26 years and still love it. But if I were looking for a more economic class and there were a groundswell of interest in a Libelle 201 one-design class that drew participation from some top pilots, I would be tempted.

The latter factor is important. Sometimes our knee-jerk reaction to these classes (e.g., Club) is to restrict them to pilots who aren't already established in the higher ranks. But having the top pilots participate helps provide legitimacy. And not being able to fly and measure myself against them would be a deal breaker for me.

Chip Bearden

On Tuesday, January 2, 2018 at 7:25:54 PM UTC-5, wrote:
Is there any update on GP Gliders USA? Last news is Tim McAllister decided to close GP Gliders North America.

I think GP was also coming out with a 15 meter ship, the GP 15 JETA. I was wondering if they would be represented at the SSA convention this year. The mast mounted electric folding prop arrangement looks very interesting and might reduce some of the problems seen with water cooled engines and long drive belts.
Dave

On Saturday, 6 January 2018 08:52:53 UTC+11, wrote:
Want a one deign class today with plenty of ships in the fleet that meet the above criteria? Start a Std Libelle class.
Just Musing
UH

Hmmmm. I like it.

- Lots of gliders (600 manufactured, approx. 95 of which show up in the FAA registry in the U.S.)
- Reasonably inexpensive
- In good repair (the gel coat on 201s seems to last a looooong time)
- Still supported (by Streinfeneder)
- Little to no performance difference across versions (the later ones have water, top-surface-only dive brakes, foam core wings, and a bigger horizontal stab but I never saw any difference in performance, nor did the low and high canopies seem to matter). The fillets, winglets, etc., that we see on European Club Class 201s haven't showed up much here.
- A joy to fly
- Light and easy to assemble (my first solo-rigging experiments)
- Performance sufficient that pilots won't feel like they're taking an alarming step down
- Performance sufficient that owners will be happy flying them outside of contests

Admittedly I'm biased. I flew a 201 competitively for seven years and loved every minute of it. I was not always so happy flying a 1-26 before that; I'm not Ron Schwartz and just found it too difficult to stay airborne at times. I feel like I learned how to fly fast more quickly once I hopped into the 201. In it, a mistake meant I was slow. In the 1-26, a mistake put me on the ground, usually for the rest of the day.

I've owned my ASW 24 for 26 years and still love it. But if I were looking for a more economic class and there were a groundswell of interest in a Libelle 201 one-design class that drew participation from some top pilots, I would be tempted.

The latter factor is important. Sometimes our knee-jerk reaction to these classes (e.g., Club) is to restrict them to pilots who aren't already established in the higher ranks. But having the top pilots participate helps provide legitimacy. And not being able to fly and measure myself against them would be a deal breaker for me.

Chip Bearden

The Formula 1.0 GP in Oz which just finished was just about that. Not a glider on the grid worth more than about US$10K. 11 Libelles (four with winglets, some seriously pimped). Half a dozen Standard Cirri. The winner had an LS-1f. Jantar's attracted the hot pilots but skill seemed to be important too. The style leader was an Open Cirrus. The quiet achiever was a DG-100. My young friend who borrowed a Libelle was stoked by having the second highest speed on the last day with 104.8kph, beaten only by another Libelle flown by a guy called Streifeneder.

Very competitive plus kids and families. The best comp for a long time. Made Worlds seem dull.

GC

GC