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Beringer Disc Brake Kit for Schemm-Hirth gliders - experience and effectiveness?



 
 
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  #21  
Old October 16th 17, 08:36 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tim Taylor
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Posts: 597
Default Beringer Disc Brake Kit for Schemm-Hirth gliders - experience and effectiveness?

On Monday, October 16, 2017 at 12:53:50 AM UTC-6, Tango Whisky wrote:
I have converted my Ventus from drum brake to disc brake. I had to chose between Béringer and the relatively new Tost Penta, and I took the latter:
- I'd rather not have a tubeless
- the Béringer kit is about 30% more expensive than the Penta kit
- I talked to S-H, and they rather install Penta than Béringer.

The Penta is about 50 grams more than the original drum braked wheel. Braking action is very good.


Is the Penta available for the D2a and V2a? In the USA right now the Tost is almost twice the cost of the Beringer wheel. Please let us know where you purchased the Tost Penta kit.
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  #22  
Old October 16th 17, 02:34 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tango Whisky
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Posts: 197
Default Beringer Disc Brake Kit for Schemm-Hirth gliders - experience and effectiveness?

Le lundi 16 octobre 2017 09:36:56 UTC+2, Tim Taylor a écrit*:
On Monday, October 16, 2017 at 12:53:50 AM UTC-6, Tango Whisky wrote:
I have converted my Ventus from drum brake to disc brake. I had to chose between Béringer and the relatively new Tost Penta, and I took the latter:
- I'd rather not have a tubeless
- the Béringer kit is about 30% more expensive than the Penta kit
- I talked to S-H, and they rather install Penta than Béringer.

The Penta is about 50 grams more than the original drum braked wheel. Braking action is very good.


Is the Penta available for the D2a and V2a? In the USA right now the Tost is almost twice the cost of the Beringer wheel. Please let us know where you purchased the Tost Penta kit.


It certainly is available for the D2a and V2a. I purchased it directly from Tost in Germany. I think it was about 1500 Euros without the tire (didn't need to change it).
  #23  
Old October 18th 17, 09:32 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Posts: 41
Default Beringer Disc Brake Kit for Schemm-Hirth gliders - experience and effectiveness?

Has anyone ever got a hydraulic Tost disk brake to work WELL on a Ventus 2CM? I'm convinced I've bled my brakes as well as they can be bled, and STILL the braking is very weak. I get some small braking action, but nowhere near being able to put the glider on its nose, or flat-spot the tire. I can slow down for a taxiway turn off, so long as its well ahead, but not enough to help on a short runway, or enough for a real emergency stop. I suspect the wire cable between the control stick and the cylinder under the seat must be stretching. I may try a thicker cable (I'm experimental).
  #24  
Old October 18th 17, 10:19 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tango Whisky
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Posts: 197
Default Beringer Disc Brake Kit for Schemm-Hirth gliders - experience and effectiveness?

You have an air bubble sitting in the system. Bleed from lower level upwards.

Been there, done that.
  #25  
Old October 18th 17, 10:40 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Default Beringer Disc Brake Kit for Schemm-Hirth gliders - experience and effectiveness?

On Wednesday, October 18, 2017 at 2:19:13 PM UTC-7, Tango Whisky wrote:
You have an air bubble sitting in the system. Bleed from lower level upwards.

Been there, done that.


I've been there and done that too, and heard that same answer, many many times. Please look at my question and give me a reply.
  #26  
Old October 18th 17, 10:51 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tango Whisky
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Posts: 197
Default Beringer Disc Brake Kit for Schemm-Hirth gliders - experience and effectiveness?

I have a late Ventus cM which has the same 5" wheel than yours.
My brakenis working perfectly since I've got hold of that last bubble.

It's not witch work or rocket science. If you experience poor braking action, you DO have a bubble. If you can't fix it, get professional help.
  #27  
Old October 18th 17, 10:57 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dave Nadler
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Default Beringer Disc Brake Kit for Schemm-Hirth gliders - experience and effectiveness?

On Wednesday, October 18, 2017 at 4:32:29 PM UTC-4, wrote:
Has anyone ever got a hydraulic Tost disk brake to work WELL on a Ventus 2CM?


I had a 2CM some years back with same problem.
Its caused by light-weight stretchy bowden cable from brake handle
down to motorcycle actuator (complete with simulated handle-bar for mount).
You can easily test this on ground: block the actuator so it can't move,
then see how much you can squeeze the handle.
Replace both cable and housing!

Hope that helps,
Best Regards, Dave

  #28  
Old October 19th 17, 02:24 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Michael Opitz
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Posts: 122
Default Beringer Disc Brake Kit for Schemm-Hirth gliders - experience and effectiveness?

At 20:32 18 October 2017, wrote:
Has anyone ever got a hydraulic Tost disk brake to work WELL on a

Ventus
2C=
M? I'm convinced I've bled my brakes as well as they can be bled,

and
STILL=
the braking is very weak. I get some small braking action, but

nowhere
ne=
ar being able to put the glider on its nose, or flat-spot the tire. I

can
s=
low down for a taxiway turn off, so long as its well ahead, but not

enough
=
to help on a short runway, or enough for a real emergency stop. I

suspect
=
the wire cable between the control stick and the cylinder under the

seat
mu=
st be stretching. I may try a thicker cable (I'm experimental).


I have a Discus-2b with the factory Tost 5" wheel also. We had real
problems bleeding all of the air out of the line. Biggo at the factory
even sent me a pdf file with pictures in order to do it correctly from
the bottom. It was a real bear to get all of the air out. Also,
adjusting the cable/brake handle so that there is no play helps a lot.
Finally, get a new brake pad even if the old one looks OK. The new
one will be thicker, so the caliper won't have to squeeze over as
great a distance to apply pressure. All of these items add up.

RO

  #29  
Old October 19th 17, 04:53 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 41
Default Beringer Disc Brake Kit for Schemm-Hirth gliders - experience and effectiveness?

On Wednesday, October 18, 2017 at 6:30:06 PM UTC-7, Michael Opitz wrote:
At 20:32 18 October 2017, wrote:
Has anyone ever got a hydraulic Tost disk brake to work WELL on a

Ventus
2C=
M? I'm convinced I've bled my brakes as well as they can be bled,

and
STILL=
the braking is very weak. I get some small braking action, but

nowhere
ne=
ar being able to put the glider on its nose, or flat-spot the tire. I

can
s=
low down for a taxiway turn off, so long as its well ahead, but not

enough
=
to help on a short runway, or enough for a real emergency stop. I

suspect
=
the wire cable between the control stick and the cylinder under the

seat
mu=
st be stretching. I may try a thicker cable (I'm experimental).


I have a Discus-2b with the factory Tost 5" wheel also. We had real
problems bleeding all of the air out of the line. Biggo at the factory
even sent me a pdf file with pictures in order to do it correctly from
the bottom. It was a real bear to get all of the air out. Also,
adjusting the cable/brake handle so that there is no play helps a lot.
Finally, get a new brake pad even if the old one looks OK. The new
one will be thicker, so the caliper won't have to squeeze over as
great a distance to apply pressure. All of these items add up.

RO


michael, can you post the pdf? I'm convinced I've done everything possible regarding bleeding, but still don't have good braking. So I don't expect it will help, but I'm desperate now. thanks.
  #30  
Old October 19th 17, 08:51 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Craig Lowrie
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Posts: 22
Default Beringer Disc Brake Kit for Schemm-Hirth gliders - experience and effectiveness?

The HPH Shark gliders have a Berringer tubeless wheel with Disc brake.
Until recently, I was the UK agent and have imported ~30 gliders. None
have suffered from problems with the tubeless wheel over 6 years. I'm
not sure that gliders with tubes could post such a good record. Only one
glider which landed very heavily in soft ground had mud between the
tyre and the Rim and would slowly go down. I stripped the wheel and
cleaned it and it has been fine ever since. I have the special jig but have

to say that there is really no problem reassembling the wheel if you are
a practical type. If the O-Ring is undamaged, I think it can be lightly
greased and used again... I keep a spare just in case...

The Brake system is very good but must be free from air. I also suspect
that the overpressure regulator in the system can be responsible for
braking which is OK but not stunning.

I have fitted a Beringer system to a Pegase and that went really well and
provided a really good soluition... I have photos if anybody wants to
upgrade their glider... I don't know about the Tost solution...

Craig Lowrie, UK

At 03:53 19 October 2017, wrote:
On Wednesday, October 18, 2017 at 6:30:06 PM UTC-7, Michael Opitz

wrote:
At 20:32 18 October 2017,
wrote:
Has anyone ever got a hydraulic Tost disk brake to work WELL on

a
Ventus
2C=
M? I'm convinced I've bled my brakes as well as they can be bled,

and
STILL=
the braking is very weak. I get some small braking action, but

nowhere
ne=
ar being able to put the glider on its nose, or flat-spot the tire. I

can
s=
low down for a taxiway turn off, so long as its well ahead, but not

enough
=
to help on a short runway, or enough for a real emergency stop. I

suspect
=
the wire cable between the control stick and the cylinder under the

seat
mu=
st be stretching. I may try a thicker cable (I'm experimental).


I have a Discus-2b with the factory Tost 5" wheel also. We had real
problems bleeding all of the air out of the line. Biggo at the factory


even sent me a pdf file with pictures in order to do it correctly from
the bottom. It was a real bear to get all of the air out. Also,
adjusting the cable/brake handle so that there is no play helps a lot.


Finally, get a new brake pad even if the old one looks OK. The new
one will be thicker, so the caliper won't have to squeeze over as
great a distance to apply pressure. All of these items add up.

RO


michael, can you post the pdf? I'm convinced I've done everything

possible
regarding bleeding, but still don't have good braking. So I don't expect

it
will help, but I'm desperate now. thanks.


 




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