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BMW engine aircraft suitable?



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 21st 09, 05:57 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
Stu Fields
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Posts: 87
Default BMW engine aircraft suitable?


"Anyolmouse" wrote in message
...

"Ralf Mueller" wrote in message
...
just read about the new BMW S 1000 RR bike. The complete engine

assembly
is less than 60 KG. Engine puts out 193HP (112 Nm, 12,000rpm).

Wouldn't
that one (slightly detuned) make a nice SLA powerplant ;-))


With about a 4.8/1 reduction to the prop??

--
We have met the enemy and he is us-- Pogo

Anyolmouse


What kind of TBO is expected @ 12,000 rpm?? Some guy who has been playing
with engines for quite awhile has a rule of thumb that says 4500 is a kind
of mark for piston engines beyond which the durability starts decreasing
more rapidly??? I haven't double checked this, but it makes some sense that
the faster the piston engine spends the quicker it wears. There is several
projects using the Yamaha 4stroke snowmobile engine that turns up around
12,000 for it's hp. Data should be available soon on their durability...


  #2  
Old November 27th 09, 11:54 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
Ralf Mueller
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Posts: 8
Default BMW engine aircraft suitable?

just read about the new BMW S 1000 RR bike. The complete engine assembly
is less than 60 KG. Engine puts out 193HP (112 Nm, 12,000rpm). Wouldn't
that one (slightly detuned) make a nice SLA powerplant ;-))
  #3  
Old November 27th 09, 04:14 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
Anyolmouse
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 138
Default BMW engine aircraft suitable?


"Ralf Mueller" wrote in message
...
just read about the new BMW S 1000 RR bike. The complete engine

assembly
is less than 60 KG. Engine puts out 193HP (112 Nm, 12,000rpm).

Wouldn't
that one (slightly detuned) make a nice SLA powerplant ;-))


With about a 4.8/1 reduction to the prop??

--
We have met the enemy and he is us-- Pogo

Anyolmouse

  #4  
Old November 27th 09, 04:42 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
Morgans[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,924
Default BMW engine aircraft suitable?


"Ralf Mueller" wrote in message
...
just read about the new BMW S 1000 RR bike. The complete engine assembly
is less than 60 KG. Engine puts out 193HP (112 Nm, 12,000rpm). Wouldn't
that one (slightly detuned) make a nice SLA powerplant ;-))


193 HP ??? Are you positive about that number? I would like to see where
that number came from, if it is available on the net, if you wouldn't mind.

If it is correct, that should do rather nicely. People have flown BMW bike
engines in the past. I believe that most of the successful ones have used a
different gearbox to reduce the prop RPM. Seems to me that I remember that
they adapted a Rotax gearbox to the job, but I doubt that there are any
Rotax gearboxed that could handle 193 HP.
--
Jim in NC


  #5  
Old November 27th 09, 06:30 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
Karl-Heinz Künzel
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Posts: 9
Default BMW engine aircraft suitable?

Morgans schrieb:
"Ralf Mueller" wrote in message
...
just read about the new BMW S 1000 RR bike. The complete engine assembly
is less than 60 KG. Engine puts out 193HP (112 Nm, 12,000rpm). Wouldn't
that one (slightly detuned) make a nice SLA powerplant ;-))


193 HP ??? Are you positive about that number? I would like to see where
that number came from, if it is available on the net, if you wouldn't mind.

If it is correct, that should do rather nicely. People have flown BMW bike
engines in the past. I believe that most of the successful ones have used a
different gearbox to reduce the prop RPM. Seems to me that I remember that
they adapted a Rotax gearbox to the job, but I doubt that there are any
Rotax gearboxed that could handle 193 HP.


Here in Germany we do have this BMW conversion -

http://www.takeoff-ul.de/pdf%27s/Des...ne_02-2006.pdf

but those numbers are far away from 193HP (112 Nm, 12,000rpm).

KH

  #6  
Old November 27th 09, 07:32 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
Ralf Mueller
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8
Default BMW engine aircraft suitable?

Karl-Heinz Künzel wrote:
Here in Germany we do have this BMW conversion -

http://www.takeoff-ul.de/pdf%27s/Des...ne_02-2006.pdf

but those numbers are far away from 193HP (112 Nm, 12,000rpm).

KH



yes, but that one is much heavier only half the HP. Here is a press release
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/04/17/o...-rr-race-bike/

  #7  
Old November 27th 09, 07:33 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
Ralf Mueller
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8
Default BMW engine aircraft suitable?

Karl-Heinz Künzel wrote:
Here in Germany we do have this BMW conversion -

http://www.takeoff-ul.de/pdf%27s/Des...ne_02-2006.pdf

but those numbers are far away from 193HP (112 Nm, 12,000rpm).

KH



yes, but that one is much heavier at only half the HP. Here is a press
release:
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/04/17/o...-rr-race-bike/

  #8  
Old November 27th 09, 08:33 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
bildan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 646
Default BMW engine aircraft suitable?

On Nov 27, 3:54*am, Ralf Mueller wrote:
just read about the new BMW S 1000 RR bike. The complete engine assembly
is less than 60 KG. Engine puts out 193HP (112 Nm, 12,000rpm). Wouldn't
that one (slightly detuned) make a nice SLA powerplant ;-))


I'd make a great SLA powerplant - as would other 4-cyl motorcycle
engines.

To answer other posts in this thread:

How long would a 12,000 RPM engine last?
Longer than a Lycoming. These engines are bulletproof.

They get their amazing power-to-weight ratio by being a high revving
engine. Trying to get the same power from a slow revving engine would
cut engine life since the bearings would have to handle far higher
torque.

Yes, you would need approximately 5:1 gear reduction but that's well
within the range of a single stage planetary gear set. Would it last
at thst RPM? Why not? Motorcycles have gears.

Like all engine conversions, it's all in the details. Do the
engineering right and it'll work fine.
  #9  
Old November 27th 09, 09:24 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
Ralf Mueller
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8
Default BMW engine aircraft suitable?

Stu Fields wrote:
"Anyolmouse" wrote in message
...
Anyolmouse


What kind of TBO is expected @ 12,000 rpm?? Some guy who has been playing
with engines for quite awhile has a rule of thumb that says 4500 is a kind
of mark for piston engines beyond which the durability starts decreasing
more rapidly??? I haven't double checked this, but it makes some sense that
the faster the piston engine spends the quicker it wears. There is several
projects using the Yamaha 4stroke snowmobile engine that turns up around
12,000 for it's hp. Data should be available soon on their durability...


true for cast-iron cylinder barrels, not true for diamond-like hard
modern coatings.

here's a pic of the engine:
http://www.ph21.de/guest/1000RR.jpeg



  #10  
Old November 27th 09, 09:40 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
Philippe[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 26
Default BMW engine aircraft suitable?

Stu Fields a écrit:

What kind of TBO is expected @ 12,000 rpm?? Some guy who has been
playing with engines for quite awhile has a rule of thumb that says
4500 is a kind of mark for piston engines beyond which the durability
starts decreasing more rapidly???


It's not the rpm but the piston speed which cause wear.
Bikes engines have very slow piston speed.
The challenge is the PSRU.

At this time, nobody built an alternate engine lighter than an
aircraft design engine.


--
une télé qui s'éteint et c'est un cerveau qui s'éveille
Philippe Vessaire ŇżÓ¬
 




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