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The highly successful UK Junior XC program vs. USA's nonexistantJunior XC program. Why?



 
 
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  #11  
Old September 10th 15, 02:24 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tim Newport-Peace[_2_]
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Default The highly successful UK Junior XC program vs. USA's nonexistant Junior XC program. Why?

At 12:45 10 September 2015, GB wrote:
Say a teenager devotes the time and energy into becoming a junior racer

in
the states. Races a couple of times in nice loaned gliders, turns

18(21?)
then what back to the 1-26? Backseat of the 2-33? What becomes of young
adult racing pilots?

Firstly, in the UK model you are a Junior up to your 25th year. After that
I would expect you will want to assist in bringing the younger Juniors on.
Remember that the UK Junior Momentum comes largely from within.

At the ago of 26, surely you will be earning and not expect further
donations.

Perhaps a further problem is that in the UK Club structure, the clubs are
largely owned by the members, and expect a club fleet to be
competition-worthy. Maybe this structure does not exist in the US model?



  #12  
Old September 10th 15, 02:27 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Sean Fidler
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Default The highly successful UK Junior XC program vs. USA's nonexistantJunior XC program. Why?

Did anyone know that the UK Junior nationals utilizes a Junior CD, manager, weather-person, etc! How brilliant! If anyone cannot see the genius behind this, I feel sorry for them.

Country size: We could divide the United States into 5 or 6 equal segments of greater population than the UK. To perform equally in terms of juniors, we would need a Junior nationals of some 350 youth pilots! Or 6 regions of 60 Juniors. Geography is not a real problem from this realistic perspective. Geography is a poor and tired excuse for US soaring numbers. We are performing at something like 1% the UKs level right now in terms of Jr's when population size is considered. Essentially, we are a joke.

The question is what are the benefits of a vibrant Junior Cross Country (not pattern flying) program? We would not know in the USA right now because, we absolutely do not have none. We only have a few bright Juniors who are able to participate regardless of the lack of organized junior XC structure or an established junior cross country culture. They are trying to build this on their own with a Facebook page, etc.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/USJRSoaring/

It has 63 members (including a number of adults). It should have 1500+ and 100 of them should be aiming for next years Junior National Championships (but I digress).

Imagine the Junior talent the United States would enjoy if we had 70 such kids flying their own contest every summer. Britain (1/6 the size) has a vibrant youth XC soaring (not pattern licenses) program with literally several hundred Junior pilots either involved or aiming to participate.

The question is what do we value as a soaring country? What are our priorities? What does our soaring leadership value? Where do we invest time and effort? What does the SSA value? What do our soaring instructors value and what are their skills? And most importantly, what do US soaring clubs value? Many of our "soaring?" clubs that actually discourage cross country soaring! I always find that fact amazing.

I would hope that our current SSA leadership sees the importance of organized and successful Junior cross country culture and takes action to rebuild one now. It's a question of priorities. One wonders what else is more important to be honest. As SSA leaders, they have the opportunity to study the problem, put a plan together, organize a team, and inspire a massive country that is essentially forsaking its junior pilots. But this must start at the top and remain a serious priority. Articles, reports, etc.

The SSA convention is in a few months. Let's hope the topic of developing Junior XC soaring is prominent, front and center and not glazed over or status quo (non-existent). We have numerous examples of how other countries are supporting their Juniors. Will our current leaders respond?

I look forward to seeing what happens!

Sean
7T
  #13  
Old September 10th 15, 04:00 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Sean Fidler
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Default The highly successful UK Junior XC program vs. USA's nonexistantJunior XC program. Why?

Oh and did I mention that most of the USA has far better soaring conditions that the UK ever dreamt of......

  #14  
Old September 10th 15, 04:17 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Justin Craig[_3_]
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Default The highly successful UK Junior XC program vs. USA's nonexistant Junior XC program. Why?

I can understand the geographical constraints about this in the US, however
the Ozzies seem to have overcome it, get some advise from them.

Perhaps the SSA could invite a UK Junior development bod to present at your
forthcoming conference?



  #15  
Old September 10th 15, 04:26 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
ND
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Default The highly successful UK Junior XC program vs. USA's nonexistantJunior XC program. Why?

On Thursday, September 10, 2015 at 9:27:48 AM UTC-4, Sean Fidler wrote:
Did anyone know that the UK Junior nationals utilizes a Junior CD, manager, weather-person, etc! How brilliant! If anyone cannot see the genius behind this, I feel sorry for them.

Country size: We could divide the United States into 5 or 6 equal segments of greater population than the UK. To perform equally in terms of juniors, we would need a Junior nationals of some 350 youth pilots! Or 6 regions of 60 Juniors. Geography is not a real problem from this realistic perspective. Geography is a poor and tired excuse for US soaring numbers. We are performing at something like 1% the UKs level right now in terms of Jr's when population size is considered. Essentially, we are a joke.

The question is what are the benefits of a vibrant Junior Cross Country (not pattern flying) program? We would not know in the USA right now because, we absolutely do not have none. We only have a few bright Juniors who are able to participate regardless of the lack of organized junior XC structure or an established junior cross country culture. They are trying to build this on their own with a Facebook page, etc.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/USJRSoaring/

It has 63 members (including a number of adults). It should have 1500+ and 100 of them should be aiming for next years Junior National Championships (but I digress).

Imagine the Junior talent the United States would enjoy if we had 70 such kids flying their own contest every summer. Britain (1/6 the size) has a vibrant youth XC soaring (not pattern licenses) program with literally several hundred Junior pilots either involved or aiming to participate.

The question is what do we value as a soaring country? What are our priorities? What does our soaring leadership value? Where do we invest time and effort? What does the SSA value? What do our soaring instructors value and what are their skills? And most importantly, what do US soaring clubs value? Many of our "soaring?" clubs that actually discourage cross country soaring! I always find that fact amazing.

I would hope that our current SSA leadership sees the importance of organized and successful Junior cross country culture and takes action to rebuild one now. It's a question of priorities. One wonders what else is more important to be honest. As SSA leaders, they have the opportunity to study the problem, put a plan together, organize a team, and inspire a massive country that is essentially forsaking its junior pilots. But this must start at the top and remain a serious priority. Articles, reports, etc.

The SSA convention is in a few months. Let's hope the topic of developing Junior XC soaring is prominent, front and center and not glazed over or status quo (non-existent). We have numerous examples of how other countries are supporting their Juniors. Will our current leaders respond?

I look forward to seeing what happens!

Sean
7T


Hey Sean,

I wasn't using geography as an excuse for our low number of junior pilots, for the record. I do view the geographic considerations as a significant factor in mass participation at one single event, and I don't think it's a poor excuse at all, but a reality. How many kids with a high-school budget, or U.S. student loan debt can afford to travel across the country with a sailplane? Travel expenses adds several hundred if not $1000 dollars to an already expensive event.

Don't get me wrong, i wasn't trying to pessimistically detract from your vision, but add to the discussion by pointing out a relevant factor as something to think about. a junior national contest in the US will have someone travelling 1500 miles at least. In turn you came back with a 5-6 region proposal. i think all of this is constructive.

as a 28 year old, how do i say this without sounding crass?

I really like flying against younger guys and i would love to see the average age at contests take a dive. It would be great to have junior make up a large percentage of U.S. contests. under the current conditions I think it would only really happen in Club Class or US Sports class because of the cost of the gliders that can be flown reasonably. if you look at the competitor list for Lasham, MOST of them were flying inexpensive club class gliders..
  #16  
Old September 10th 15, 05:54 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Frank Whiteley
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Default The highly successful UK Junior XC program vs. USA's nonexistantJunior XC program. Why?

On Thursday, September 10, 2015 at 9:00:10 AM UTC-6, Sean Fidler wrote:
Oh and did I mention that most of the USA has far better soaring conditions that the UK ever dreamt of......


Nonsense.
  #17  
Old September 10th 15, 07:29 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Sean Fidler
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Posts: 1,005
Default The highly successful UK Junior XC program vs. USA's nonexistantJunior XC program. Why?

:-)
  #18  
Old September 10th 15, 08:24 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Gav Goudie[_2_]
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Posts: 25
Default The highly successful UK Junior XC program vs. USA's nonexistant Junior XC program. Why?

But look at what our sometimes mediocre soaring conditions do for the skill
of
the pilots flying in them...

And we don't dream, we go and fly in those conditions also :-)

At 15:00 10 September 2015, Sean Fidler wrote:
Oh and did I mention that most of the USA has far better soaring

conditions
that the UK ever dreamt of......



  #19  
Old September 10th 15, 09:20 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
John Cochrane[_3_]
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Posts: 351
Default The highly successful UK Junior XC program vs. USA's nonexistantJunior XC program. Why?

As a one time (long ago) junior who had to give up for a while, I think we're missing the big picture here. Not big team training sessions, not nationals.

If you're a junior, and sort of by definition can't afford to own a glider, where do you get access to a relatively modern glider suitable for learning cross country and contest skills?

European clubs have glass single seat gliders, and encourage memebers to go cross country in them.

The vast majority of American clubs don't have glass gliders, and heaven forbid anyone should take one cross country, least of all the "new kid." The exceptions -- Harris Hill with both good gliders and a strong junior program, for example -- prove the rule.

John Cochrane
  #20  
Old September 10th 15, 11:57 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Default The highly successful UK Junior XC program vs. USA's nonexistantJunior XC program. Why?

On Thursday, September 10, 2015 at 4:20:14 PM UTC-4, John Cochrane wrote:
As a one time (long ago) junior who had to give up for a while, I think we're missing the big picture here. Not big team training sessions, not nationals.

If you're a junior, and sort of by definition can't afford to own a glider, where do you get access to a relatively modern glider suitable for learning cross country and contest skills?

European clubs have glass single seat gliders, and encourage memebers to go cross country in them.

The vast majority of American clubs don't have glass gliders, and heaven forbid anyone should take one cross country, least of all the "new kid." The exceptions -- Harris Hill with both good gliders and a strong junior program, for example -- prove the rule.

John Cochrane


From what I see, most Harris Hill juniors do their first cross countries in the 1-26 or the 1-34. Mostly the 1-34.
I think it is not at all important to have glass available for early cross countries.
For early contests, a 1-34 is fine in sports as long as tasking takes it into account. It is "just" more work to rig and derig.
Liz Schwenkler, from HHSS, won her first regional in the 1-34 and later was the first woman to win a US Nationals since the 1950's. Along the way, she had loaner gliders as she needed them.
It isn't the ships, it's the culture.
UH
 




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