The highly successful UK Junior XC program vs. USA's nonexistantJunior XC program. Why?

On Thursday, September 10, 2015 at 6:58:03 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Thursday, September 10, 2015 at 4:20:14 PM UTC-4, John Cochrane wrote:
As a one time (long ago) junior who had to give up for a while, I think we're missing the big picture here. Not big team training sessions, not nationals.

If you're a junior, and sort of by definition can't afford to own a glider, where do you get access to a relatively modern glider suitable for learning cross country and contest skills?

European clubs have glass single seat gliders, and encourage memebers to go cross country in them.

The vast majority of American clubs don't have glass gliders, and heaven forbid anyone should take one cross country, least of all the "new kid." The exceptions -- Harris Hill with both good gliders and a strong junior program, for example -- prove the rule.

John Cochrane

From what I see, most Harris Hill juniors do their first cross countries in the 1-26 or the 1-34. Mostly the 1-34.
I think it is not at all important to have glass available for early cross countries.
For early contests, a 1-34 is fine in sports as long as tasking takes it into account. It is "just" more work to rig and derig.
Liz Schwenkler, from HHSS, won her first regional in the 1-34 and later was the first woman to win a US Nationals since the 1950's. Along the way, she had loaner gliders as she needed them.
It isn't the ships, it's the culture.
UH

I tend to agree with Hank. We're making it so much more complicated than it is. It starts with some really hard work - instructing, encouraging, retrieving, etc. The culture comes first. It's a grass-roots effort.

That's not to suggest that a common playbook and institutional support won't be necessary - it will. But first, we have to start with a culture that welcomes and encourages juniors ON THEIR TERMS with support and the rest will follow. I'll put my money where my mouth is and commit to a Region 2 Junior confab and XC camp in the next 2 years. If each of the 12 regions in the US did this with only 5 kids, there's your 60 juniors!

P3

This guy, Maximillion Seis, just won the day at the Sailpane Grand Prix Final today in Italy and is in first place overall at current. He is 21 years old, French. TWENTY ONE!

I wonder when he started flying cross country?

Amazing.

FAI RANKING PROFILE: http://rankingdata.fai.org/SGP_displ...p?pilotid=6795

SGP FINAL RESULTS: http://www.sgp.aero/final2015.aspx?contestID=6157

We need to figure this out and start developing some junior pilots. We need to get out of their way!

It's as simple as that, let's all work together to build a program for Juniors. The ultimate goal should be a Jr Nationals / party / training session. We should also have a Juniors in Florida before the Seniors around spring break every winter.

Etc, etc.

We need ideas, a plan, and everyone pointed towards the same goal.

But we need a leader...too! Someone who is really motivated and well liked, etc, etc, etc to light the flame and carry the torch. The SSA has to take a leadership role as well AT ALL LEVELS.

Most important the Jrs need to be involved heavily. They are trying hard, and great kids. So are the guys trying to help them...

At 13:27 10 September 2015, Sean Fidler wrote:
Numerous snips
Geography is a poor and tired excuse for US soaring numbers.
We are performing at something like 1% the UKs level right now
in terms of Jr's when population size is considered. Essentially,
we are a joke.

The question is what do we value as a soaring country? What are
our priorities? What does our soaring leadership value? Where do
we invest time and effort? What does the SSA value? What do our
soaring instructors value and what are their skills? And most
importantly, what do US soaring clubs value? Many of our "soaring?"
clubs that actually discourage cross country soaring! I always find
that fact amazing.

I would hope that our current SSA leadership sees the importance
of organized and successful Junior cross country culture and takes
action to rebuild one now. It's a question of priorities. One wonders
what else is more important to be honest. As SSA leaders, they have
the opportunity to study the problem, put a plan together, organize a
team, and inspire a massive country that is essentially forsaking its
junior pilots. But this must start at the top and remain a serious
priority. Articles, reports, etc.

The SSA convention is in a few months. Let's hope the topic of
developing Junior XC soaring is prominent, front and center and not
glazed over or status quo (non-existent). We have numerous
examples of how other countries are supporting their Juniors. Will
our current leaders respond? I look forward to seeing what happens!
Sean 7T

Your position in a nutshell seems to be that the decline in U.S. soaring
is directly attributable to the failure of SSA's leadership to magically
find some way of opening the flood gates for the droves of young
people anxiously waiting to become xc soaring competitors.

Being the staunch soaring competitor you are, I'm sure no one has
any hope of enlightening you to the fact that the steady decline in
soaring is the cumulative effects of a complex myriad of issues.
Which can not be turned around simply by focusing on any single
issue.

For decades I have listened to individuals rants concerning what U.S.
soaring needs. The more common are, cheaper access (more clubs), cheaper
tows (winch launches), more youth, better equipment
(particularly in clubs), better access (to public airports).
Unfortunately
even after many decades the underlying issues are as problematic as
ever. I could seriously argue that the single biggest detriment to
soaring in the U.S. has been the cumulative effects of SSA's historical
failure to work with the FAA in assuring that glider operations were a
normal inclusive part of airport operations and subsequent airport
planning. But that ship sailed a long time ago and U.S. soaring will
forever be paying the price.

But to address your specific current complaints about SSA, there is a
saying. People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
Rather than stand on the sidelines complaining about SSA leadership,
step up to the plate and in the next elections have a winning platform
and become a regional director. In the mean time spend less time
accusing others of their inadequacies and put that energy into clearly
developing specific detailed plans of action for successfully
implementing the changes you envision. While at the same time lobby
hard in all of the regions to convince the members that your plan is
the right plan for SSA. If you get enough of the membership on board,
they will pressure their directors to work toward that goal. If your
concept is truly credible and the masses agree. Work at establishing
work groups in each region comprised of pilots who agree with your
agenda for fixing soaring. These groups can then work at convincing
current directors of the need to implement necessary changes and eventually
if necessary eventually nominating and electing someone
more in sync with this new philosophy.

From a competition perspective, in spite of having some of the
premier soaring in the U.S.. It has been a long time since Region 12
has had yearly regional contests. Most recently there was no director
election required because the existing region 12 director was unopposed.
If your ideas can be shown to truly have merit, then it shouldn't be
difficult to persuade a group of region 12 pilots to nominate and elect a
director who supports that vision. But just jumping up and down on the
sidelines will have no impact whatsoever.

On Thursday, September 10, 2015 at 4:20:14 PM UTC-4, John Cochrane wrote:
As a one time (long ago) junior who had to give up for a while, I think we're missing the big picture here. Not big team training sessions, not nationals.

If you're a junior, and sort of by definition can't afford to own a glider, where do you get access to a relatively modern glider suitable for learning cross country and contest skills?

European clubs have glass single seat gliders, and encourage memebers to go cross country in them.

The vast majority of American clubs don't have glass gliders, and heaven forbid anyone should take one cross country, least of all the "new kid." The exceptions -- Harris Hill with both good gliders and a strong junior program, for example -- prove the rule.

John Cochrane

And Aero Club Albatross. Eternally grateful for the amount of latitude I had with the club equipment from Day One.

As for Erik, he is also working on spawning a junior into the mix. He is training his son and I'd imagine he'll be tearing up the sky in no time.

The discussion regarding equipment is somewhat moot. 1-26s, 1-34s, Glass ships, it really doesn't matter. The bigger issue is the difficulties in logistics and support. Many juniors can't even drive and getting access to a tow vehicle with a hitch is quite difficult. For a year, my "commute" to the airport was three hours one way, taking trains to get to Newark and two club members driving me the rest of the way. Those two club members, Steve and Intis made all the difference for me at that time. They also both crewed for me for my first several cross country flights, with Steve participating on the whimsical retrieve on my Silver Distance. A story for another time.

On the other hand, a good friend of mine at another club who got access to a high performance glider was unable to get this sort of support and did not get involved with cross country flying for quite a while. He just did two cross country flights and his first outlanding. His last flight was 170 miles on quite a challenging day and now is totally hooked.

Another junior pilot found his club to be very hesitant in crewing for him or landing away from his airfield. He does very little cross country flying out of his homebase, most of it in camps and in contests.

This is by far the most difficult hurdle to cross as a junior pilot. I had been very lucky with the resources I have had and the support I received. I hope that other juniors will experience these things and it would be an honor for me to have the opportunity to give back to future junior pilots in a similar capacity. It sure made a difference in my flying.

Best Regards,
Daniel

At 13:27 10 September 2015, Sean Fidler wrote:
Numerous snips
Geography is a poor and tired excuse for US soaring numbers.
We are performing at something like 1% the UKs level right now
in terms of Jr's when population size is considered. Essentially,
we are a joke.

The question is what do we value as a soaring country? What are
our priorities? What does our soaring leadership value? Where do
we invest time and effort? What does the SSA value? What do our
soaring instructors value and what are their skills? And most
importantly, what do US soaring clubs value? Many of our "soaring?"
clubs that actually discourage cross country soaring! I always find
that fact amazing.

I would hope that our current SSA leadership sees the importance
of organized and successful Junior cross country culture and takes
action to rebuild one now. It's a question of priorities. One wonders
what else is more important to be honest. As SSA leaders, they have
the opportunity to study the problem, put a plan together, organize a
team, and inspire a massive country that is essentially forsaking its
junior pilots. But this must start at the top and remain a serious
priority. Articles, reports, etc.

The SSA convention is in a few months. Let's hope the topic of
developing Junior XC soaring is prominent, front and center and not
glazed over or status quo (non-existent). We have numerous
examples of how other countries are supporting their Juniors. Will
our current leaders respond? I look forward to seeing what happens!
Sean 7T

Your position in a nutshell seems to be that the decline in U.S. soaring
is directly attributable to the failure of SSA's leadership to magically
find some way of opening the flood gates for the droves of young
people anxiously waiting to become xc soaring competitors.

Being the staunch soaring competitor you are, I'm sure no one has
any hope of enlightening you to the fact that the steady decline in
soaring is the cumulative effects of a complex myriad of issues.
Which can not be turned around simply by focusing on any single
issue.

For decades I have listened to individuals rants concerning what U.S.
soaring needs. The more common are, cheaper access (more clubs), cheaper
tows (winch launches), more youth, better equipment
(particularly in clubs), better access (to public airports).
Unfortunately
even after many decades the underlying issues are as problematic as
ever. I could seriously argue that the single biggest detriment to
soaring in the U.S. has been the cumulative effects of SSA's historical
failure to work with the FAA in assuring that glider operations were a
normal inclusive part of airport operations and subsequent airport
planning. But that ship sailed a long time ago and U.S. soaring will
forever be paying the price.

But to address your specific current complaints about SSA, there is a
saying. People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
Rather than stand on the sidelines complaining about SSA leadership,
step up to the plate and in the next elections have a winning platform
and become a regional director. In the mean time spend less time
accusing others of their inadequacies and put that energy into clearly
developing specific detailed plans of action for successfully
implementing the changes you envision. While at the same time lobby
hard in all of the regions to convince the members that your plan is
the right plan for SSA. If you get enough of the membership on board,
they will pressure their directors to work toward that goal. If your
concept is truly credible and the masses agree. Work at establishing
work groups in each region comprised of pilots who agree with your
agenda for fixing soaring. These groups can then work at convincing
current directors of the need to implement necessary changes and eventually
if necessary eventually nominating and electing someone
more in sync with this new philosophy.

From a competition perspective, in spite of having some of the
premier soaring in the U.S.. It has been a long time since Region 12
has had yearly regional contests. Most recently there was no director
election required because the existing region 12 director was unopposed.
If your ideas can be shown to truly have merit, then it shouldn't be
difficult to persuade a group of region 12 pilots to nominate and elect a
director who supports that vision. But just jumping up and down on the
sidelines will have no impact whatsoever.

On Thursday, September 10, 2015 at 6:24:04 PM UTC-7, Sean Fidler wrote:
It's as simple as that, let's all work together to build a program for Juniors. The ultimate goal should be a Jr Nationals / party / training session. We should also have a Juniors in Florida before the Seniors around spring break every winter.


Are you volunteering to take on leading this effort? If so, good for you!

Andy
9B

On Friday, September 11, 2015 at 1:17:57 AM UTC-4, Andy Blackburn wrote:
On Thursday, September 10, 2015 at 6:24:04 PM UTC-7, Sean Fidler wrote:
It's as simple as that, let's all work together to build a program for Juniors. The ultimate goal should be a Jr Nationals / party / training session. We should also have a Juniors in Florida before the Seniors around spring break every winter.


Are you volunteering to take on leading this effort? If so, good for you!

Andy
9B

A Greek proverb:

"A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in."

A similar Chinese proverb and appropriate to this thread:

"The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now."

It's time stop to churning up the dirt to see if there is any life to be salvaged in our dwindling contest scene. Start the process of renewal, turn a few spades and plant some trees.

The big question is why is someone on "the sidelines" required to bring this up? Why is this not the SSAs highest priority already? What are the current leaders really focused on?

Your correct. I'm not involved in the SSA leadership. This is absolutely true. I am simply one person making a point (on RAS) about our lack of a U..S. Jr cross country culture. I say plainly that our Jrs are pattern pilots with almost zero opportunity to learn true soaring like their peers in Europe, Australia and elsewhere. I say that is a shame, an utter failure of leadership and is THE REASON why our sport is on the decline.

He who lives in a glass house (whatever the hell that means). Are you not being a "tad" dramatic? If pointing out our lack of a junior nationals in the US bothers anyone, I do not give a flying crap. Deal with it however you must.

What the SSA does about this failure is entirely up to them. Yep, it probably will result in diddly squat. Most SSA members are focused on only what directly effects them in the next 12 months (contest rules, club politics, ADSB, etc). Leaders must broader vision and stategy. Do we have effective leaders? We shall see.

As for me, fire away all you wish. Yawn.

The big question is why is some nobody on "the sidelines" required to bring this up? Why is this not the SSAs highest priority already? What are the current leaders really focused on?

You're correct. I'm not involved in the SSA leadership. This is absolutely true. I am simply one person making a point (on RAS) about our lack of a U.S. Jr cross country culture. It strikes me as painfully obvious and critically important. I say plainly that our juniors are merely trained to be pattern pilots with almost zero encouragement or opportunity to learn true XC soaring like their peers in Europe, Australia and elsewhere. I say that is a crying shame, an utter failure of our leadership and is THE REASON why our sport is on the decline in the USA.

"He who lives in a glass house..." (whatever the hell that means). Are you not being a "tad" dramatic? If pointing out our lack of a junior nationals (or even junior cross country pilots) in the US bothers anyone, I honestly do not give a flying crap. Deal with it however you must.

What the "SSA does!" about this failure is entirely up to them. Yep, my thread here probably will result in diddly squat. Most SSA members are narrowly focused on only what directly effects them in the next 12 months (contest rules, club politics, ADSB, etc). Most SSA members and clubs are not concerned about developing junior cross country pilots at all. Leaders must have broader vision and stategy. Leaders must LEAD! Do we have effective leaders? We shall see.

As for me, fire away all you wish. Yawn. This is what I do for fun. You would not believe what I do when I am serious, trust me.