New kind of thermal studies?

https://www.sciencenews.org/blog/sci...orology?tgt=nr

Wish they had given us a little more detail. Would be nice to see how the birds do on OLC...

Boggs

My brother who lives outside of and above Boulder CO reports that this past week migrating flocks of Sand Hill Cranes pause to thermal over his house, gain, then reform a drafting V-formation and continue southward. Now that's a gaggle.

I wonder whether they form a drafting ring formation in the thermal.

On Saturday, 17 October 2015 17:17:14 UTC+3, Bob T wrote:
https://www.sciencenews.org/blog/sci...orology?tgt=nr

I read the original paper as subject is interesting. I'm surprised they outright assumed that windspeed in thermal is same as windspeed outside thermal (obviously it is not, that would give us only perfectly round and symmetrical thermals). Their assumption was never challenged because they had absolutely no other source of information regarding 3D wind within airmass other than surface observations. They make some funny observations that are obvious to every glider pilot like vultures use mainly the best thermals, not average ones. No **** sherlocks. What a waste of someone's money this is.

What you say is valid for many "climate" studies. Those who challenge
the current climate hysteria are generally shouted down.

Flame suit on.

On 10/19/2015 4:36 AM, krasw wrote:
On Saturday, 17 October 2015 17:17:14 UTC+3, Bob T wrote:
https://www.sciencenews.org/blog/sci...orology?tgt=nr
I read the original paper as subject is interesting. I'm surprised they outright assumed that windspeed in thermal is same as windspeed outside thermal (obviously it is not, that would give us only perfectly round and symmetrical thermals). Their assumption was never challenged because they had absolutely no other source of information regarding 3D wind within airmass other than surface observations. They make some funny observations that are obvious to every glider pilot like vultures use mainly the best thermals, not average ones. No **** sherlocks. What a waste of someone's money this is.

--
Dan, 5J

I have personally observed buzzards circling in sink. It usually occurs at inopportune times for me, and I think they do it just to mess with me. So right after the never follow a glider with an engine rule, is the never fully trust a buzzard rule. No personal experience with vultures, and their thermal choices.

I have some concerns about this study. It looks like they limited their "recruitment" to only one type of bird. Well that looks like discrimination to me. Were these birds given adequate compensation for their work? Were they offered medical care, vacation, medical leave? What happens if they get hurt while working? Not to mention retirement benefits.

Obviously these birds need to unionize, and until that happens the justice department needs to step in and supervise things so the rest of us can sleep well at night knowing that the lawyers are taking care of this for us.

SF

On Monday, October 19, 2015 at 9:34:40 AM UTC-7, SF wrote:
I have personally observed buzzards circling in sink. It usually occurs at inopportune times for me, and I think they do it just to mess with me. So right after the never follow a glider with an engine rule, is the never fully trust a buzzard rule. No personal experience with vultures, and their thermal choices.

I have some concerns about this study. It looks like they limited their "recruitment" to only one type of bird. Well that looks like discrimination to me. Were these birds given adequate compensation for their work? Were they offered medical care, vacation, medical leave? What happens if they get hurt while working? Not to mention retirement benefits.

Obviously these birds need to unionize, and until that happens the justice department needs to step in and supervise things so the rest of us can sleep well at night knowing that the lawyers are taking care of this for us.

SF

If by "buzzard" you are referring to the turkey vulture, they hunt in a different way from most other vultures. They usually fly very low and hunt mainly by sense of smell. They have huge wings, a low wing loading, and soar on microlift near the surface. They are almost always useless to soaring pilots!

Many other vultures, including the black vulture that we have here in Arizona, hunt by thermalling high enough to use visual clues. The Cape Vulture, which I met in my early gliding career in South Africa, is the only one I've experienced that seemed comfortable soaring with gliders. These have higher wing loading and need to thermal!

Mike

On Monday, October 19, 2015 at 4:06:50 PM UTC-6, Mike the Strike wrote:
On Monday, October 19, 2015 at 9:34:40 AM UTC-7, SF wrote:
I have personally observed buzzards circling in sink. It usually occurs at inopportune times for me, and I think they do it just to mess with me. So right after the never follow a glider with an engine rule, is the never fully trust a buzzard rule. No personal experience with vultures, and their thermal choices.

I have some concerns about this study. It looks like they limited their "recruitment" to only one type of bird. Well that looks like discrimination to me. Were these birds given adequate compensation for their work? Were they offered medical care, vacation, medical leave? What happens if they get hurt while working? Not to mention retirement benefits.

Obviously these birds need to unionize, and until that happens the justice department needs to step in and supervise things so the rest of us can sleep well at night knowing that the lawyers are taking care of this for us..

SF

If by "buzzard" you are referring to the turkey vulture, they hunt in a different way from most other vultures. They usually fly very low and hunt mainly by sense of smell. They have huge wings, a low wing loading, and soar on microlift near the surface. They are almost always useless to soaring pilots!

Many other vultures, including the black vulture that we have here in Arizona, hunt by thermalling high enough to use visual clues. The Cape Vulture, which I met in my early gliding career in South Africa, is the only one I've experienced that seemed comfortable soaring with gliders. These have higher wing loading and need to thermal!

Mike

The turkey vultures have been migrating overhead (Greeley, CO). They seem a little less organized this year. There's a colony that stays in the Colorado foothills NW of Fort Collins in the summer, presumably going to Texas for the winter. We also have some good soaring gaggles of pelicans that reside here in the summer. I think they've already gone south. The biggest soaring gaggles I've ever seen were 1500-3000 white storks. We had a plague of green frogs at Incirlik AB in 1985 or 1986. You couldn't walk anywhere without stepping on them. One day, nearly 3000 storks arrived locally and started feasting on the frogs, a feast that lasted a few weeks. The storks would take to the air on the first morning thermals. There was one F-16 canopy lost to a stork strike. There may be about 6200 nesting pairs around the eastern Med. They can only fly about 30 miles by flapping their wings, but can soar long distances.

I used to fly gliders in east Africa, where we had both buzzards and marabou storks (a very large carrion eater). Both were fairly good indicators of lift, but savvy glider pilots always looked below a gaggle to see if they were circling in lift or over a dead zebra. The clue was if they were descending or climbing, obviously.

And here in the Minden area we have flocks of pelicans that gaggle up in thermals. A couple years ago I was about 16,000' above Bridgeport with a dozen or so pelicans in the same thermal. Since there are not many fish at that altitude, I presume they are there for the pure pleasure of soaring. Or maybe not - maybe they were gaining altitude for a long glide.

I'm often thermalling with vultures in Southern France (they often come in flocks) up to 2000 or 3000 m. They thermal well, but they don't give a shut whether it's the best thermal or not.

Bert
Ventus CM TW