How to teach XC with lead/follow technique?

On Wednesday, October 4, 2017 at 1:21:58 AM UTC+2, wrote:
We are trying to help teach XC to our fellow club members. I've heard of the Lead/Follow technique with an experienced pilot showing a student how to get around a course. Before we try it, are there any suggestions on how to best do it?

I've heard that if the leader is higher up or in a higher performance glider it is good to sometimes pull the spoilers and get down to the level of the student.

Should it be a 1:1 leader/follower ratio or can you have more than 1 follower?

I suppose a good talk on how to enter/exit and thermal together is the first thing - since they may not have flown gaggles before.

A portable flarm would be good to add to the student's gliders just to be able to track them.

Chris

Although not (yet) a flight instructor, I took several students around local small courses in my two-seat glider. Sitting side-by-side is a real advantage for that kind of initial training since you can point out things much easier while looking at the same set of instruments.
Many clubs in Europe use modern TMGs for that purpose.
Uli
'AS'

Don't mean to blow our owm trumpet here, but many of the practical issues with gaggle flying, following, heights etc can be practiced in Condor.

On Wednesday, October 4, 2017 at 5:14:27 AM UTC-4, Chris Wedgwood wrote:
Don't mean to blow our owm trumpet here, but many of the practical issues with gaggle flying, following, heights etc can be practiced in Condor.

Don't mean to pop your bubble, but if any of those things need to be practiced, the pair is hopelessly unready for the real world.

best,
Evan Ludeman / T8

I have done this. The student must be a competent thermal flyer. and the most important part is to leave each thermal together.

On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 4:21:58 PM UTC-7, wrote:
We are trying to help teach XC to our fellow club members. I've heard of the Lead/Follow technique with an experienced pilot showing a student how to get around a course. Before we try it, are there any suggestions on how to best do it?

I've heard that if the leader is higher up or in a higher performance glider it is good to sometimes pull the spoilers and get down to the level of the student.

Should it be a 1:1 leader/follower ratio or can you have more than 1 follower?

I suppose a good talk on how to enter/exit and thermal together is the first thing - since they may not have flown gaggles before.

A portable flarm would be good to add to the student's gliders just to be able to track them.

Chris

I have been a lead pilot several times over the years and offer the following.........
+++ 2 place flight with student is an excellent first step. Student fly the same route, solo the next day.
+++ do it on good soaring days with low wind.
+++ if flying with a lead pilot, launch together with instructor first.
+++ use different frequencies.
+++ instructor be willing to pull spoilers and go down to save student......"get right on my tail and do everything I do".
+++ stay loose, as it has the potential to become a very disorganized cluster-f***
Have fun,
JJ

On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 7:21:58 PM UTC-4, wrote:
We are trying to help teach XC to our fellow club members. I've heard of the Lead/Follow technique with an experienced pilot showing a student how to get around a course. Before we try it, are there any suggestions on how to best do it?

I've heard that if the leader is higher up or in a higher performance glider it is good to sometimes pull the spoilers and get down to the level of the student.

Should it be a 1:1 leader/follower ratio or can you have more than 1 follower?

I suppose a good talk on how to enter/exit and thermal together is the first thing - since they may not have flown gaggles before.

A portable flarm would be good to add to the student's gliders just to be able to track them.

Chris

I try to get a flight or 2 doing short XC in the '21 to get some basic skills in place.
Gotta be able to fly a round circle in lift with good speed control.
Basic speed to fly theory.
Orientation and navigation.
Glide range estimating
Confidence that it isn't black art.
After that, if so inclined, they are ready for modest escorted flight.

It is almost impossible to figure out and correct what an XC beginner is doing wrong, and guide improvement, from another ship.
I've tried it both ways.

UH

On Wednesday, October 4, 2017 at 12:59:34 PM UTC-4, wrote:
I have been a lead pilot several times over the years and offer the following.........
...
+++ use different frequencies.

- yup we've done that around here some times. Made it hard to hear each other :-)

How do you deal with the dearth of available frequencies? (There are 720 of them, and we only get 2?) Some people use some other frequencies in the av band that are not "official". I've tried using some old Sprint cellphones with the Direct Talk feature, they work as walkie-talkies (peer to peer, no cell towers involved). Free from the congestion on the FRS bands. The stumbling block so far has been finding/making suitable PTT headsets. And they don't do VOX.

Moshe these work well and are robust http://www.pryme.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=2231 Just have to make sure you have the right plug. I have a set I can bring to the airport if you want to play with them.
How do you deal with the dearth of available frequencies? (There are 720 of them, and we only get 2?) Some people use some other frequencies in the av band that are not "official". I've tried using some old Sprint cellphones with the Direct Talk feature, they work as walkie-talkies (peer to peer, no cell towers involved). Free from the congestion on the FRS bands. The stumbling block so far has been finding/making suitable PTT headsets. And they don't do VOX.

The airlines, military, and professional flight training businesses all understand that flight training (teaching/learning) is best done using simulation. All the fundamental skill prerequisites for XC, mentioned above, and all the XC-specific skills can be learned more efficiently and effectively in simulation.

That said, flight simulation is an instruction a tool. It is not a substitute for a qualified instructor. And, flight simulation is not the entire solution to the problem (only about 80% of the solution). It is the best environment for "learning" what needs to be learned. The aircraft is the best environment for "applying" what has been learned in simulation.

My recommendation is to use simulation to teach XC candidates what they need to know. Have them demonstrate required skills, knowledge, and judgement in simulation before wasting anyone's time/money in an actual aircraft.

By the way, all of advise given in this thread is great stuff. Nearly all of it could be incorporated into a simulation-based XC instructional program, today, and at little or no cost.

Simulation-based training can be done in groups. It can be done at any time of the day, any day of the week, and any time of year. It is not dependent on the availability of equipment (tow planes, two-place XC-capable gliders). It is not weather-dependent. It can be done at-a-distance, i.e., online with students and instructors being anywhere in the country.

And at the top of my simulation-based advantages is the opportunity to build mental experience. Flying is largely a mental exercise; knowing what to do, how to do it, and perhaps most importantly when to do something. Simulation affords the learner the time and opportunity to acquire the level of mental experience that creates safe, competent pilots.

The challenge, of course, is the reluctance of instructors to adopt simulation as a teaching/learning environment. I have yet to find a solution to that unfortunate reality.

Respectfully submitted for your consideration.

On Wednesday, October 4, 2017 at 9:51:07 PM UTC+3, wrote:
On Wednesday, October 4, 2017 at 12:59:34 PM UTC-4, wrote:
I have been a lead pilot several times over the years and offer the following.........
...
+++ use different frequencies.

- yup we've done that around here some times. Made it hard to hear each other :-)

How do you deal with the dearth of available frequencies? (There are 720 of them, and we only get 2?) Some people use some other frequencies in the av band that are not "official". I've tried using some old Sprint cellphones with the Direct Talk feature, they work as walkie-talkies (peer to peer, no cell towers involved). Free from the congestion on the FRS bands. The stumbling block so far has been finding/making suitable PTT headsets. And they don't do VOX.

Interestingly, the US Hang Gliding and Parachuting organisation has got themselves five chat frequencies assigned in the "Business" band! 151.625 MHz, 151.955 MHz, 151.505 MHz, 158.400 MHz, and 151.925 MHz

That's out of the range of airband radios.