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#1
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USA competition rules re team flying?
Just curious as to the current situation regarding team flying in U.S.
competions, especially in view of the decided disadvantage U.S. pilots appear to suffer in world competitions due to lack of team flying experience. My understanding is that premeditated team flying is still completely verbotten in the U.S. - have I missed anything? I can only find one reference to team flying in the rules. From the 2007 SSA National Rules: "10.7.2.7 Relaying of information between aircraft for any reason other than safety is prohibited. This specifically forbids team flying." TIA, Frank (TA). |
#2
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USA competition rules re team flying?
On Oct 3, 6:55 pm, Frank wrote:
I can only find one reference to team flying in the rules. From the 2007 SSA National Rules: "10.7.2.7 Relaying of information between aircraft for any reason other than safety is prohibited. This specifically forbids team flying." How many references to a prohibited activity would you expect to find in the rules? Are you suggesting that this rule only appears in the National rules and not the Regional rules? If you want to team with someone, and exchange information with them, you'll need a multi seat glider. (US sanctioned contests). Andy |
#3
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USA competition rules re team flying?
On Oct 3, 8:55 pm, Frank wrote:
Just curious as to the current situation regarding team flying in U.S. competions, especially in view of the decided disadvantage U.S. pilots appear to suffer in world competitions due to lack of team flying experience. My understanding is that premeditated team flying is still completely verbotten in the U.S. - have I missed anything? I can only find one reference to team flying in the rules. From the 2007 SSA National Rules: "10.7.2.7 Relaying of information between aircraft for any reason other than safety is prohibited. This specifically forbids team flying." TIA, Frank (TA). I searched "team" in the rules, and this is the only reference to team flying. This is in a section entitled "radio usage" So one interpretation is that this rule applies only to radio communication. Anything else goes -- coordinate on the ground, meet up at the start, fly wingtip to wingtip or nose to tail around the course if you like, so long as you don't talk on the radio. However, another interpretation is that "this specifically forbids team flying" makes team flying more generally against the rules, so that the above behavior, verified by traces of pilots flying together day after day, would be against the rules. A discussion of this issue at a contest this year yielded the former interpretation. (Most people involved thought there was a more general ban, and found out there is none.) Still, it seems a grey area worthy of some clarification. The other question is whether it makes sense to have a rule with no enforcement. But that's another question. John Cochrane |
#4
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USA competition rules re team flying?
On Oct 3, 9:55 pm, Frank wrote:
Just curious as to the current situation regarding team flying in U.S. competions, especially in view of the decided disadvantage U.S. pilots appear to suffer in world competitions due to lack of team flying experience. My understanding is that premeditated team flying is still completely verbotten in the U.S. - have I missed anything? I can only find one reference to team flying in the rules. From the 2007 SSA National Rules: "10.7.2.7 Relaying of information between aircraft for any reason other than safety is prohibited. This specifically forbids team flying." TIA, Frank (TA). You can't share info on the radio as decribed. That said enforcing a rule about being in close proximity for long periods of time would be completely unworkable. How do you discriminate between team flying and agressive leaching? We all team up on sometimes with somebody else informally to do better against the fleet. Some are very good at working with others, even without the radio. I have taught the techniques of this to quite a few folks going to WGC, especially Juniors. Effective team flying can happen without the radio, It's just easier with it. Darrell Waltrip, the Nascar star has a perfect term for this - Coopetition! |
#5
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USA competition rules re team flying?
You can't share info on the radio as decribed. That said enforcing a .... How can the organisers decide whether info relayed from a pilot to their personal base/retrieve team is not also intended to be of benefit to to other (team members) pilots? What is to stop 3 pilots scouting out 1/2 hour before and, because pilot 4 understands the code used by pilots 1-3, p4 knowns which route (1-3) is favourable? p.s. I know nothing. J. |
#6
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USA competition rules re team flying?
How can the organisers decide whether info relayed from a pilot to their personal base/retrieve team is not also intended to be of benefit to to other (team members) pilots? What is to stop 3 pilots scouting out 1/2 hour before and, because pilot 4 understands the code used by pilots 1-3, p4 knowns which route (1-3) is favourable? Pilots who want to cheat don't need to go to such lengths. They just go off on some other frequency, or carry FM radios. The rule isn't enforced -- we rely on good sportsmanship, and the disgrace that would follow if someone were caught. For the moment, that seems to be working. Reports I have heard of bending this rule are confined to regionals or low scorers. Few US national contests have been won by pilots flying together, at least so far, so the question of radio contact really hasn't come up in any situation that anyone really cares about it. John Cochrane |
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