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Rent vs. Own



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 12th 08, 05:05 AM posted to rec.aviation.owning
Frank[_11_]
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Posts: 2
Default Rent vs. Own

Since this is an aircraft owners newsgroup, that means it's the perfect place to ask about the costs associated with owning an airplane vs. renting.

Since I haven't started my private pilot lessons, I'm not familiar with all of the expenses associated with owning an aircraft. I have listed below a brief list of likely expenses (I think) and I asking for feedback on it.

I do understand that costs for each item can vary greatly from place to place and according to many factors, but I think this is a good start. I am imagining the purchase of a Cessna 172 with a couple of private pilot buddies and I came up with this:

1) Storage (what is the price difference between hangar and tie down?)
2) Insurance for plane
3) Normal service for plane (how often does the plane have to be serviced...and approximately how much?)
4) Repairs (I understand this is unpredictable...is their an annual "average" cost for problems?)

Can you give me a basic idea?


  #2  
Old February 12th 08, 05:16 AM posted to rec.aviation.owning
John[_13_]
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Posts: 31
Default Rent vs. Own

Frank;
Spend a few moments googling Cost of Airplane ownership and you get all the info you need. No use retyping the same things.
"Frank" wrote in message . ..
Since this is an aircraft owners newsgroup, that means it's the perfect place to ask about the costs associated with owning an airplane vs. renting.

Since I haven't started my private pilot lessons, I'm not familiar with all of the expenses associated with owning an aircraft. I have listed below a brief list of likely expenses (I think) and I asking for feedback on it.

I do understand that costs for each item can vary greatly from place to place and according to many factors, but I think this is a good start. I am imagining the purchase of a Cessna 172 with a couple of private pilot buddies and I came up with this:

1) Storage (what is the price difference between hangar and tie down?)
2) Insurance for plane
3) Normal service for plane (how often does the plane have to be serviced...and approximately how much?)
4) Repairs (I understand this is unpredictable...is their an annual "average" cost for problems?)

Can you give me a basic idea?


  #3  
Old February 12th 08, 06:15 AM posted to rec.aviation.owning
Robert M. Gary
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Posts: 2,767
Default Rent vs. Own

On Feb 11, 8:05*pm, "Frank" wrote:

3) Normal service for plane (how often does the plane have to be serviced....and approximately how much?)
4) Repairs (I understand this is unpredictable...is their an annual "average" cost for problems?)


Nope, no average. You really cannot predict what you will pay for
maintenance. However, the cost of ownership will typically be higher
for an owner who flys less than 200 hrs/yr. The FBO is averaging the
cost of the plane over more pilots.

-Robert

  #4  
Old February 13th 08, 02:09 AM posted to rec.aviation.owning
Ross[_2_]
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Posts: 13
Default Rent vs. Own

Robert M. Gary wrote:
On Feb 11, 8:05 pm, "Frank" wrote:


3) Normal service for plane (how often does the plane have to be serviced...and approximately how much?)
4) Repairs (I understand this is unpredictable...is their an annual "average" cost for problems?)



Nope, no average. You really cannot predict what you will pay for
maintenance. However, the cost of ownership will typically be higher
for an owner who flys less than 200 hrs/yr. The FBO is averaging the
cost of the plane over more pilots.

-Robert


But the one thing you cannot put a price on it being able to walk out to
you airplane and fly it after a week of bad weather and there is no one
in line in front of you. The plane is exactly as you left it and not the
prior renter. The condition of the plane is known to you because you
assisted the A&P/IA in its annual and any repairs that come along. I fly
about 60 to 70 hours a year and I know I am paying more than renting.
But I would not trade this for anything.

Ross
C-172F 180 hp
KSWI
  #5  
Old February 13th 08, 06:17 PM posted to rec.aviation.owning
Robert M. Gary
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Posts: 2,767
Default Rent vs. Own

On Feb 12, 5:09*pm, Ross wrote:

But the one thing you cannot put a price on it being able to walk out to
you airplane and fly it after a week of bad weather and there is no one
in line in front of you. The plane is exactly as you left it and not the
prior renter. The condition of the plane is known to you because you
assisted the A&P/IA in its annual and any repairs that come along. I fly
about 60 to 70 hours a year and I know I am paying more than renting.
But I would not trade this for anything.


As well as launching IFR with the family for a trip. How many rental
planes out there would anyone here be comfortable going into the soup
with? In Sacramento there is one place that rents a 2005 C-182T.
That's about the only rentaly plane I would do anything more than a
few approaches in if I didn't have my Mooney.

Plus, you can get the plane you want. FBOs don't have any reason to
buy anything other than 172's, 182's, etc. They want training planes.
If you want an Aeronca, Swift, or truely high performance cross
country plane, you need to purchase.

-robert

-Robert
  #6  
Old February 14th 08, 01:15 AM posted to rec.aviation.owning
Mike Spera
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Posts: 220
Default Rent vs. Own




But the one thing you cannot put a price on it being able to walk out to
you airplane and fly it after a week of bad weather and there is no one
in line in front of you. The plane is exactly as you left it and not the
prior renter. The condition of the plane is known to you because you
assisted the A&P/IA in its annual and any repairs that come along. I fly
about 60 to 70 hours a year and I know I am paying more than renting.
But I would not trade this for anything.



Another thing that is difficult to value is tossing the keys at the FBO
person and saying "it's broke, give me another one" when the rental is
not up to snuff. The rentals are inspected every 100 hours and whatever
it costs to make it airworthy ain't your problem. The thing likely has
fuel in it. And it probably just flew around a bit so it is likely to
keep doing so when you get in it.

As an owner, I would find it hard to start renting. Too old and too
fussy. But the cost and aggravation is quite a bit higher as many have
already stated. To some this is a wonderful mental and financial
challenge. To others, it is a pain in the ass. After 14 years of
ownership, I have gone from one end of the spectrum to the other.

Good Luck,
Mike


  #7  
Old February 14th 08, 05:55 PM posted to rec.aviation.owning
xyzzy
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Posts: 193
Default Rent vs. Own

On Feb 13, 8:15 pm, Mike Spera wrote:
But the one thing you cannot put a price on it being able to walk out to
you airplane and fly it after a week of bad weather and there is no one
in line in front of you. The plane is exactly as you left it and not the
prior renter. The condition of the plane is known to you because you
assisted the A&P/IA in its annual and any repairs that come along. I fly
about 60 to 70 hours a year and I know I am paying more than renting.
But I would not trade this for anything.


Another thing that is difficult to value is tossing the keys at the FBO
person and saying "it's broke, give me another one" when the rental is
not up to snuff. The rentals are inspected every 100 hours and whatever
it costs to make it airworthy ain't your problem. The thing likely has
fuel in it. And it probably just flew around a bit so it is likely to
keep doing so when you get in it.

As an owner, I would find it hard to start renting. Too old and too
fussy. But the cost and aggravation is quite a bit higher as many have
already stated. To some this is a wonderful mental and financial
challenge. To others, it is a pain in the ass. After 14 years of
ownership, I have gone from one end of the spectrum to the other.

Good Luck,
Mike


Both Mike's and Robert's post show why, if you are fortunate to have a
good club in your area, that's the way to go.

My club has 3 152's, 2 172's, 2 Warriors, and (for Robert 2 Mooneys
on the line.

We have a maintanence program run by an A&P and volunteers under his
supervision.

You can pretty much control your costs by how much you fly in a given
month -- the only fixed cost is dues.

It really is the best compromise of both.
  #8  
Old February 16th 08, 03:16 PM posted to rec.aviation.owning
Jay Honeck[_2_]
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Posts: 943
Default Rent vs. Own

As an owner, I would find it hard to start renting. Too old and too fussy.
But the cost and aggravation is quite a bit higher as many have already
stated. To some this is a wonderful mental and financial challenge. To
others, it is a pain in the ass. After 14 years of ownership, I have gone
from one end of the spectrum to the other.


Well said, Mike. As time goes on, I'm starting to see your points.

Example: We've owned planes for ten years now. I do a fair amount of my
own maintenance, and have participated in every annual. I've laid on my
back in puddles of gas and oil, unscrewing access panel and other screws,
I've stood on my head under the panel, poking at loose wires. I've
hand-packed bearings with grease, learned a lot, got really dirty, and had
great fun.

Except now I'm finding these things cause me a lot more pain than they used
to. I'm ten years older, and I grunt and groan and twitch as I contort
myself into small spaces, and I sure don't jump off the front of the wing
anymore. Ibuprofen is my friend, and there were times, during this annual,
that it just wasn't fun anymore.

Flying with my son has re-opened my eyes to the ease of flying rental
planes. Yesterday, my 17 year old son (and new pilot) spent a few hours in
the shop, helping with the annual. I showed him how to take the nose wheel
off the plane, how to repack the wheel bearings, and lots of other little
stuff. My A&P walked him through some other items, and I'm sure he learned
a lot. Then we went over to the FBO to rent the 150 so he could do a few
turns around the pattern.

It was so simple! The line guys even asked him if he'd like the plane put
in the big hangar, so he could preflight indoors! The fuel was topped off
for him, and everything was ship-shape, without lifting a finger. What a
contrast to the effort we had put into our own plane that morning!

Still, we had to haul all of our stuff -- headphones, log books, charts,
etc. That was a pain. And the plane had just been flown by...whom? Was
it landed hard? Rolled inverted on its last flight? Is a control cable
frayed? How many hours are on the engine?

A jillion things that I never worry about in Atlas went through my head as
we rolled out to the runway in that rental... Suddenly the grease under my
fingernails seemed worth it, again.

To the OP: If you can afford it, do it. Owning your own plane is wonderful.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

  #9  
Old February 16th 08, 03:29 PM posted to rec.aviation.owning
Jay Maynard
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Posts: 521
Default Rent vs. Own

On 2008-02-16, Jay Honeck wrote:
To the OP: If you can afford it, do it. Owning your own plane is wonderful.


I'm coming at this from the other direction. I've always rented, but I'm
seriously considering buying. Not only that, I'm considering buying a new
aircraft.

Everything Jay said is true: you never know what the real, complete
condition of the airplane is if you rent. You can't leave your stuff in it.
You might well have to clean up after the last guy. It might not even be
there at the appointed time, if the previous renter couldn't get it back
home in time.

Owning is a daunting prospect for me. I'm looking at spending $130-160K. The
note, plus hangar rent, plus maintenance, plus fuel, plus lots of other
stuff, is going to be a big chunk of money every month. I'm finally in a
position where I can afford it, thankfully. Offsetting the big ticket is
that I'll fly a new aircraft for the first time in my life (I last flew
before Cessna started building piston singles again), and that I'll get to
have the plane the way I want it (including a specific N-number, N55ZC,
without having to pay for a paint job).

If it weren't for medical issues, I'd be looking at an AA-5B instead of a
Zodiac or Sierra. The note would be smaller, but the maintenance would
probably be higher, and I'd probably have to sink a fair amount of money
into upgrades and repairs. Even so, I'd still buy. The advantages are too
attractive to me.

It probably doesn't make financial sense. As Gordon Baxter put it, "How much
does it take to own an airplane? Everything you've got." There's an
intangible feeling there that, to me, is worth it.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
http://www.hercules-390.org (Yes, that's me!)
Buy Hercules stuff at http://www.cafepress.com/hercules-390
  #10  
Old February 12th 08, 12:27 PM posted to rec.aviation.owning
Kyle Boatright
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Posts: 578
Default Rent vs. Own

These costs vary tremendously by location. At an underused, rural field, hangar rental may be $50/mo. At an overcrowded urban field, the same hangar may be $600/mo. Same thing for maintenance costs. You would do well to go to your local field and ask these questions to pilots with aircraft similar to what you propose to purchase.
"Frank" wrote in message . ..
Since this is an aircraft owners newsgroup, that means it's the perfect place to ask about the costs associated with owning an airplane vs. renting.

Since I haven't started my private pilot lessons, I'm not familiar with all of the expenses associated with owning an aircraft. I have listed below a brief list of likely expenses (I think) and I asking for feedback on it.

I do understand that costs for each item can vary greatly from place to place and according to many factors, but I think this is a good start. I am imagining the purchase of a Cessna 172 with a couple of private pilot buddies and I came up with this:

1) Storage (what is the price difference between hangar and tie down?)
2) Insurance for plane
3) Normal service for plane (how often does the plane have to be serviced...and approximately how much?)
4) Repairs (I understand this is unpredictable...is their an annual "average" cost for problems?)

Can you give me a basic idea?


 




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