Ack!! video A320 xwind in Germany

On Mar 4, 1:04 am, Jim Logajan wrote:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...538926,00.html

Scroll to the bottom for an editor's note: "An earlier version of this
story contained information from German wire service DPA that listed the
strength of storm winds near the airport at 250 kilometers-per-hour (155
miles per hour)."


Jim, it was the plane that was traveling @ 155 mph

Ramapriya

On Mar 3, 2:59 pm, Jim Logajan wrote:
Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

Perhaps so - but it's been alleged there was a wind gust of 155 mph:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080303/..._rough_landing

Actually the plane was traveling at 155mph. There was no mention of
wind speed.

On Mar 3, 1:50*pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
"gatt" wrote in news:13sol8u8jlhokb5
@corp.supernews.com:

WTF kind of crosswind does it take to cause this?

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ddb_1204404185

Wasn't so much the crosswind as the technique used to deal with it.

Bertie

Hah, I was about to post this vid and ask Bertie about it.

He crabbed in, then straightening out his upwind wing (not lowered)
got caught by the x wind.

I've seen numerous vids of jetliners crabbing in.

So if he'd sideslipped in with the upwind wing down and HELD it after
touch down maybe that is what would have worked? I'm assuming the the
GA approach holds for jetliners, like I said, I can't tell if I've
ever seen a jetliner sideslip vid.

If that's not the way, what is (other than the obvious find a better
runway option).

wrote in news:9c6e930e-6cf4-4f7d-b2f1-
:

On Mar 3, 1:50*pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
"gatt" wrote in news:13sol8u8jlhokb5
@corp.supernews.com:

WTF kind of crosswind does it take to cause this?

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ddb_1204404185

Wasn't so much the crosswind as the technique used to deal with it.

Bertie

Hah, I was about to post this vid and ask Bertie about it.

He crabbed in, then straightening out his upwind wing (not lowered)
got caught by the x wind.

I've seen numerous vids of jetliners crabbing in.

So if he'd sideslipped in with the upwind wing down and HELD it after
touch down maybe that is what would have worked? I'm assuming the the
GA approach holds for jetliners, like I said, I can't tell if I've
ever seen a jetliner sideslip vid.

If that's not the way, what is (other than the obvious find a better
runway option).




Well, if ground clearance isn;t an issue, and it isn't for most, the
technique is the same except most guys who slip just do it as they enter
the flare, crabbing up to that point. Boeing recommend slipping from
about 200 feet down and in fact the autpilot will do that itself if
you're doing an autoland.. Another poster has said that the A320 won't
slip no matter what. I've asked a few A3whatever pilots in the past
about how the flight controls work in that thing and never did get a
saitisfactory answer. I've even flown an A320 for a little bit and i
whatever mode we were in was very like an autpilot mode in most
airplanes. The airplane merely held whatever attitude I left it in in
pitch and would only turn if the stick was held..


Bertie


Bertie

On Mar 3, 12:57*pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
wrote in news:9c6e930e-6cf4-4f7d-b2f1-
:





On Mar 3, 1:50*pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
"gatt" wrote in news:13sol8u8jlhokb5
@corp.supernews.com:

WTF kind of crosswind does it take to cause this?

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ddb_1204404185

Wasn't so much the crosswind as the technique used to deal with it.

Bertie

Hah, I was about to post this vid and ask Bertie about it.

He crabbed in, then straightening out his upwind wing (not lowered)
got caught by the x wind.

I've seen numerous vids of jetliners crabbing in.

So if he'd sideslipped in with the upwind wing down and HELD it after
touch down maybe that is what would have worked? I'm assuming the the
GA approach holds for jetliners, like I said, I can't tell if I've
ever seen a jetliner sideslip vid.

If that's not the way, what is (other than the obvious find a better
runway option).

Well, if ground clearance isn;t an issue, and it isn't for most, the
technique is the same except most guys who slip just do it as they enter
the flare, crabbing up to that point.

Yea, that's call the "crab and kick" its common with jet jocks and,
sadly, becoming the most common way CFI's teach in C-150's today. I'm
still a big fan of the slipping method because my background is
taildraggers and the crab&kick method doesn't work in taildraggers.

-robert, CFII

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in news:5e393001-314a-46e0-aeb0-
:

the flare, crabbing up to that point.

Yea, that's call the "crab and kick" its common with jet jocks and,
sadly, becoming the most common way CFI's teach in C-150's today. I'm
still a big fan of the slipping method because my background is
taildraggers and the crab&kick method doesn't work in taildraggers.

Doesn't really work all that well with anything, but it's a neccesary evil
in some airplanes. High performance fighter jets have to do it and some
airliners, especially four engined ones, but the video clearly illustrates
why, in max winds, it's just nowhere near as effective.

Bertie

On Mon, 3 Mar 2008 20:57:26 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

Boeing recommend slipping from
about 200 feet down

So Bertie, will this pilot, "Oliver A.", generally be seen in the pilot
community as having screwed up?

Could he have prevented the wing strike by slamming the stick to the right
as he was kicking out of the crab?

I also guessing Lufthansa's corporate line will be to call him a hero
rather than admit that their pilots don't know how to land an airplane.


--
Dallas

Dallas wrote in
:

On Mon, 3 Mar 2008 20:57:26 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

Boeing recommend slipping from
about 200 feet down

So Bertie, will this pilot, "Oliver A.", generally be seen in the
pilot community as having screwed up?

I don't think so. Not if the numbers were reasonable on approach. Many of
the accident reports I've read afterwards gave me a sick "that could have
happened to anyone, incuding me" type of feeling, which is what makes them
worth reading , of course.

Could he have prevented the wing strike by slamming the stick to the
right as he was kicking out of the crab?

I don't know. The FBW 'Busses are supposed to be able to sort those thngs
out themselves.

I also guessing Lufthansa's corporate line will be to call him a hero
rather than admit that their pilots don't know how to land an
airplane.

Well, I don't know that he did do anything wrong. My only point in posting
the link was to point out that the kick it straight school of landing an
airplane is an inferior way of landing an airplane whether it's done by
computer or a pilot. The 757 I fly is roughly a similar size and
configuration and slipping it onto the runway gives a demonstrated 40 knot
x-wind. I've flown in quite nearly that component and it's actually
relatively easy. There's enough control authority to keep it straight even
in that wind.

Bertie

On Mar 4, 12:10*pm, Dallas wrote:
On Mon, 3 Mar 2008 20:57:26 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
*Boeing recommend slipping from
about 200 feet down

So Bertie, will this pilot, "Oliver A.", generally be seen in the pilot
community as having screwed up?

CNN is reporting that she is onlly 24 years old. Maybe she doesn't
have a lot of experience in cross wind landings??

-Robert

"gatt" wrote in message
...
WTF kind of crosswind does it take to cause this?

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ddb_1204404185

Why did the pilot even start the approach with such high and gusty winds?
Also, what is Lufthansa's policy regarding Max Crosswinds? What does the
POH say the Max Demonstrated Crosswind capability is?

After crabbing for awhile, it looks like he tried to slip. Then when the
plane hit the runway, the landing gear made it fly level. The wind caught
under the right wing and nearly flipped the plane. I'm glad he flew out of
the situation rather than trying to kill the power and stearing out.