3 lives lost

an "Alert Area" is not reserved airspace..

BT

"OtisWinslow" wrote in message
...
The plane was in an Alert area marked "Intensive Student Training" and it
was flying at 5000ft. It's on the map. Find out if it's hot before
venturing
around in it. The military pilots were doing what they do in the area
reserved for them to do it in.



"Denny" wrote in message
oups.com...
Darwin award!

While we are on the topic of stupidity, did everyone notice that the
military managed to t-bone another GA plane yesterday, killing the GA
pilot, while the intrepid combat pilots parachuted to safety..

Denny

Absolutely! The AgCat did an Immelman and rammed the jet from
behind...

OK, all fun and tongue in cheek aside..
1. I am pro military flyboys... They put their ass on the line in
defense of the country, for meager pay..
2..It is a given that they have to train...
3. BUT! Other than the prohibited areas it is public airspace and the
over taking craft must give way...

Look at the Ninja flight in Florida that slaughtered an innocent and
totally in the right CFI... The military has a cavalier attitude that
you are obligated to stay out of their way as they bust speed limits,
altitude/heading rules, and aerobatic restrictions, in public
airspace... It is time to haul the military up short and for the courts
to inform them (in the form of manslaughter convictions) that they are
obligated to exercise due care because being faster and more
maneuverable than the spam can they are the burdened vessel... The
military absolutely has to place radar aircraft near the hot zone
scanning for civilian traffic to protect the public during training
maneuvers - and that is the bottom line... Consider the flip side of
the coin - Your wife is tooling down I-80 and an Abrams tank comes
flying out of the weeds and crushes your car, and her, flat and keeps
going... And the military tells you that it was a training mission and
therefore your wife was obligated to say out of their way...

The final reality, is that if a combat aircraft (training or not)
cannot see and avoid a 110 knot spam can, what chance in frozen hell,
would they have of surviving more than 30 seconds in an actual combat
zone against an enemy that intends to maneuver in close enough to kill
them?

Denny

Denny wrote:
Absolutely! The AgCat did an Immelman and rammed the jet from
behind...

OK, all fun and tongue in cheek aside..
1. I am pro military flyboys... They put their ass on the line in
defense of the country, for meager pay..
2..It is a given that they have to train...
3. BUT! Other than the prohibited areas it is public airspace and the
over taking craft must give way...

Look at the Ninja flight in Florida that slaughtered an innocent and
totally in the right CFI... The military has a cavalier attitude that
you are obligated to stay out of their way as they bust speed limits,
altitude/heading rules, and aerobatic restrictions, in public
airspace... It is time to haul the military up short and for the courts
to inform them (in the form of manslaughter convictions) that they are
obligated to exercise due care because being faster and more
maneuverable than the spam can they are the burdened vessel... The
military absolutely has to place radar aircraft near the hot zone
scanning for civilian traffic to protect the public during training
maneuvers - and that is the bottom line... Consider the flip side of
the coin - Your wife is tooling down I-80 and an Abrams tank comes
flying out of the weeds and crushes your car, and her, flat and keeps
going... And the military tells you that it was a training mission and
therefore your wife was obligated to say out of their way...

The final reality, is that if a combat aircraft (training or not)
cannot see and avoid a 110 knot spam can, what chance in frozen hell,
would they have of surviving more than 30 seconds in an actual combat
zone against an enemy that intends to maneuver in close enough to kill
them?

Well said, Denny! We all need to prod AOPA to get hot on this issue. Not to
denigrate your contribution, but this is preaching to the choir. Hmmm, actually
it seems there are some in the NG who haven't joined the choir yet. The 4-letter
groups have the clout to make a dent in this problem, maybe only barely. We need
to let them know it's an issue we want them to spend our money on.

Dave

most towns have a road, main drag, country mile or whatever where the
youth gather to do what youth do. think of it as an moa only with much
bigger motors.

without worrying about right & wrong or who is patriotic, isn't there a
"best practive" where you( the g.a. driver) A: stay out or B: make sure
their traffic control knows you're around? had planned to cross one a
while back (didn't happen) and i was real clear that i had a perfect
right to be there but i had also planned to let 'em know i was there.

now, i'm sure not saying the ferry-driver did anything wrong; i'm just
askin about what y'all do.


dan

houstondan wrote:

now, i'm sure not saying the ferry-driver did anything wrong; i'm just
askin about what y'all do.

Someone posted that the ferry pilot was above the alert airspace and not in it.
That's what I used to do when I was based at Old Bridge. If I came in from the
south, I'd go over McGuire's alert area and descend into Old Bridge.

If I ever make a run to Tennessee from my new home field (Lakewood), I'll have
to go through. I'll call them up and get a squawk code for that.

George Patterson
The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise.

G.R. Patterson III wrote:
houstondan wrote:

now, i'm sure not saying the ferry-driver did anything wrong; i'm
just
askin about what y'all do.

Someone posted that the ferry pilot was above the alert airspace and
not in it.
That's what I used to do when I was based at Old Bridge. If I came in
from the
south, I'd go over McGuire's alert area and descend into Old Bridge.

If I ever make a run to Tennessee from my new home field (Lakewood),
I'll have
to go through. I'll call them up and get a squawk code for that.


Today I learned some information about the T-37 - Air Tractor midair
collision.

The T-37 struck the Air Tractor in the nose area, and the pilot was
able to land the crippled Air Tractor in a field, but it exploded into
flames before he could egress the aircraft. The pilot who gave me this
info saw the aftermath of the crash site firsthand and stated that
there are clear tire tracks in the field indicating the pilot was able
to land his crippled plane in what appeared to should have been a
survivable landing, but they did not know if the Air Tractor was on
fire on the way down or not.

What a terrible way to die.

Wow, that is VERY interesting. Could you provide more details on your
pilot friend's theory?


--
mudskipper
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted via OziPilots Online [ http://www.OziPilotsOnline.com.au ]
- A website for Australian Pilots regardless of when, why, or what they fly -