Runway incursions

This weekend as the FAA was at the FBO giving a seminar on runway
incursions and explaining how the number of runway incursions per
million GA operations increases while the number of operations
declines, we had two of them.

Coincidental to the seminar, the B-17 Sentimental Journey stopped
overnight in front of the FBO for weather and minor maintenance (I
love my job!) The airplane was visible from the Interstate so it
drew a lot of attention. With an FAA rep upstairs, one spectator ran
out onto the active taxiway to take a picture causing the tower to
blow a siren. Moments later, his daughter nearly did it again.
Ultimately, some of us at the FBO began to usher people around the
airplane, explain the boundaries and try to interface with the public
a little while keeping things safe. One guy let his kids lift himself
up by the two tailguns to get a better look in the airplane. And, by
the way, it doesn't matter if you're a pilot. At home, you probably
don't let your kids play under a truck that's up on jacks and wooden
blocks. Why would you do it under a 35,000 lb bomber?

Somebody else taxied a C-172 at about 10 mph through the ~ 70' space
between the bomber's wingtip and the building, over a live extension
cord running from the bomber to the building, with people working or
wandering around. Dumbass. Taxiing quickly or making a 270-degree
pivot at 2300 rpm doesn't make you look cool, and you don't like it
when somebody showers you or your airplane with dust and gravel, so,
knock it off.

Lastly, an experimental roared right up to the bomber and the
gathering of people waving at him to stop, until it was too late for
him to turn around, but he tried anyway and sent a gust of propwash
along the flight line, toward the FBO and the B-17. He then promptly
darted back onto the active taxiway to swing into transient parking. A
moment later tower, who had presumably seen it all, called and said
"Have that pilot call us when he comes into your office."

I spent most of the day just absorbing the sight and activity of the
B-17 and crew, and at one moment I realized the FAA safety rep was
standing next to me. "You can tell it's August," he said. We
discussed the need to reduce runway incursions before TSA steps in and
starts locking down gates or requiring further regulation. It behooves
us.

Pilots: Read the AF/D and runway diagrams before you arrive so you're
not taxiing all over the place looking for published information. Slow
down when you see unusual things such as giant, gleaming, spectacular
airplanes in the transient area, or crowds of people. Lead by example.

Instructors, FBOs: Teach this stuff. Safety and etiquette. If you see
random people showing up, remember that feeling you get when you see
your favorite airplane at your local airport. An off-duty instructor
saying "Here, I'll walk you around and see how close we can get" is a
great opportunity to promote GA and fuel interest in flying. It's an
opportunity for you to teach safety, by example, to aviation
enthusiasts, reporters, etc.

Fly safe. Thanks, everybody!

Chris
CFI, KTTD

On 08/11/09 14:16, C Gattman wrote:
This weekend as the FAA was at the FBO giving a seminar on runway
incursions and explaining how the number of runway incursions per
million GA operations increases while the number of operations
declines, we had two of them.


[ snip ]


Fly safe. Thanks, everybody!

Chris
CFI, KTTD


Nice post, Chris.

I think the stupid pilot tricks are generally perpetrated by folks
that won't likely be reading these posts, unfortunately - or if they
do read, won't get it.

I had a friend/pilot that did some pretty stupid things, and he
always justified that he was perfectly safe and within his rights
to do them. Sad really.

I believe they are the minority, but they are also the ones that
make the news when it hits the fan :-\

Best Regards,

--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane, USUA Ultralight Pilot
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

The largest percentage of "Incursions" at our local airport was caused by
the local airport maint vehicles.
So a county "FBO", can't control their employees or contract maintenance
people and "GA" takes the hit for incursions.
It's not the pilots its the airport owners.

BT

"C Gattman" wrote in message
...
This weekend as the FAA was at the FBO giving a seminar on runway
incursions and explaining how the number of runway incursions per
million GA operations increases while the number of operations
declines, we had two of them.

Coincidental to the seminar, the B-17 Sentimental Journey stopped
overnight in front of the FBO for weather and minor maintenance (I
love my job!) The airplane was visible from the Interstate so it
drew a lot of attention. With an FAA rep upstairs, one spectator ran
out onto the active taxiway to take a picture causing the tower to
blow a siren. Moments later, his daughter nearly did it again.
Ultimately, some of us at the FBO began to usher people around the
airplane, explain the boundaries and try to interface with the public
a little while keeping things safe. One guy let his kids lift himself
up by the two tailguns to get a better look in the airplane. And, by
the way, it doesn't matter if you're a pilot. At home, you probably
don't let your kids play under a truck that's up on jacks and wooden
blocks. Why would you do it under a 35,000 lb bomber?

Somebody else taxied a C-172 at about 10 mph through the ~ 70' space
between the bomber's wingtip and the building, over a live extension
cord running from the bomber to the building, with people working or
wandering around. Dumbass. Taxiing quickly or making a 270-degree
pivot at 2300 rpm doesn't make you look cool, and you don't like it
when somebody showers you or your airplane with dust and gravel, so,
knock it off.

Lastly, an experimental roared right up to the bomber and the
gathering of people waving at him to stop, until it was too late for
him to turn around, but he tried anyway and sent a gust of propwash
along the flight line, toward the FBO and the B-17. He then promptly
darted back onto the active taxiway to swing into transient parking. A
moment later tower, who had presumably seen it all, called and said
"Have that pilot call us when he comes into your office."

I spent most of the day just absorbing the sight and activity of the
B-17 and crew, and at one moment I realized the FAA safety rep was
standing next to me. "You can tell it's August," he said. We
discussed the need to reduce runway incursions before TSA steps in and
starts locking down gates or requiring further regulation. It behooves
us.

Pilots: Read the AF/D and runway diagrams before you arrive so you're
not taxiing all over the place looking for published information. Slow
down when you see unusual things such as giant, gleaming, spectacular
airplanes in the transient area, or crowds of people. Lead by example.

Instructors, FBOs: Teach this stuff. Safety and etiquette. If you see
random people showing up, remember that feeling you get when you see
your favorite airplane at your local airport. An off-duty instructor
saying "Here, I'll walk you around and see how close we can get" is a
great opportunity to promote GA and fuel interest in flying. It's an
opportunity for you to teach safety, by example, to aviation
enthusiasts, reporters, etc.

Fly safe. Thanks, everybody!

Chris
CFI, KTTD

Perhaps I'm missing something, but how were any of these events
"runway"
incursions.

On Aug 24, 6:57*am, Ron wrote:
Perhaps I'm missing something, but how were any of these events
"runway"
incursions.

At a towered airport, walking onto an active taxiway is considered a
runway incursion. According to the FAA runway safety authority who was
at the airport and who called the tower to confirm that they had
reported it to the FAA, responsibility for this incursion would fall
on the pedestrian and the port authority.

At the same airport, taxiing onto an active taxiway without clearance
is a runway incursion. This too was reported by ATC to the FAA, and
responsibility would fall on the pilot of the aircraft. (If they chose
to pursue it.)

A third type of incursion occurs when the tower issues a conflicting
clearance or causes an aircraft to violate a rule. Responsibility for
this would fall on ATC, which is required to report -all- runway
incursions in case it turns out they're causing them.

-Chris
CFI

On Sep 9, 1:07*pm, C Gattman wrote:

At a towered airport, walking onto an active taxiway is considered a
runway incursion.

Not quite sure I agree with this.

http://www.faa.gov/airports/runway_safety/

Airplanes don't take off and land on taxiways.

In article
,
BeechSundowner wrote:

On Sep 9, 1:07*pm, C Gattman wrote:

At a towered airport, walking onto an active taxiway is considered a
runway incursion.

Not quite sure I agree with this.

http://www.faa.gov/airports/runway_safety/

Airplanes don't take off and land on taxiways.

Not usually, no. (I guess that after 35 years, statute of limitations
has finally kicked in.)

When I was just a fledgeling, I'd flown to a towered airport near
Sacramento to take an FAA written test.

After, getting ready to leave, I got completely lost, thought I was on
the runway, and took off from a parallel taxiway.

Tower noticed.

I thought the operator showed remarkable restraint, considering.

I was most clearly advised to not come anywhere near the area again
until I'd got my act together. Period. Full stop.

I did pass the written, though.

And got my act together. Although to this day, I'm a bit twitchy about
ground operations and clearances.

On Sep 9, 2:13*pm, Steve Hix wrote:

And got my act together. Although to this day, I'm a bit twitchy about
ground operations and clearances.

I absolutely can relate Steve as I work out of an uncontrolled
airport. Taxiways wider then my home base runway, I can fully
understand how that kind of mistake can be made (I haven't done that
myself!) There is a vast amount of concrete out there!

I get the willies having complex taxi instructions at any controlled
airport and without hesitation will ask for progressives with turns.

Even posted a video of this :-) when I was at KBTR as I wasn't going
to turn down any tool available to me.

Like Chris suggests, study the AFD but even then you still need to be
aware of taxiway closures ATIS announcements and the like. All the
best laid out plans do go awry at least for me. And no matter what
others may thing, I'd rather sound stupid on the radio then do
something stupid on the ground. When I fly with other pilots and I
act as safety (I am not a CFI) I tell them when in doubt ask.

C Gattman wrote:

At a towered airport, walking onto an active taxiway is considered a
runway incursion.


No it isn't. A runway incursion is "any occurrence at an aerodrome
involving the incorrect presence of an aircraft, vehicle or person on the
protected area of a surface designated for the landing and take off of
aircraft."


At the same airport, taxiing onto an active taxiway without clearance
is a runway incursion.


Only if it's been designated for the landing and take off of aircraft.

On Sep 9, 3:03*pm, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:
C Gattman wrote:

At a towered airport, walking onto an active taxiway is considered a runway incursion.

No it isn't. *A runway incursion is

Mr. McNicoll, I was standing next to an FAA official guest from the
Seattle FSDO after he had just given a CFI seminar on teaching runway
incursion avoidance when this happened. I'm quoting official FAA
sources, firsthand. Your sourceless contradiction of this puts
readers of this forum who fly at risk by providing faulty and bad
information, so I am compelled to respond. I'm trying to tell you that
I witnessed the FAA Runway Safety official call the tower and then
turn to tell me that ATC had reported TWO runway incursions: One for
a pedestrian on the taxiway, and another for an airplane that roamed
back onto Alpha without clearance.

So, if you have something in an official context that you'd like to
share, do so. According to airlinesafety.com, "The FAA defines a
runway incursion as Any occurrence at an airport involving an
aircraft, vehicle, person, or object on the ground that creates a
collision hazard or results in loss of separation with an aircraft
taking off, intending to take off, landing, or intending to land."

Strictly speaking, an incursion onto a taxiway is a taxiway incursion.
But, straight from the horse's mouth, the result is the same. There
are only three sources to which they assign blame and unless it's
ATC's fault or you're a pedestrian, the weight of the investigation
falls on the pilot of the aircraft.

I strongly encourage you to discuss this with your local FSDO
directly. If you walk, drive or operate your aircraft on a taxiway at
a towered airport, without clearance, your opinion of the what a
runway incursion is won't prevent them from taking action against
you.

-chris
Commercial Pilot, Certified Flight Instructor
Troutdale, Oregon