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#11
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towing a sailplane trailer / vehicle
No problems with my Outback - '95 and '02 - both automatics.
Mileage did suck in hilly terrain. I put some extra air in the tires to stiffen things up a bit. Second the brakes comment. Tim 1FL On Oct 29, 10:38*pm, ryanglover1969 wrote: Hello all. I am looking to buy a new vehicle, mainly for work related reasons. Something like an AWD Subaru Outback would be perfect for work. So I'm wondering what you all have to say about towing my sailplane trailer with a Subaru Outback, which is a 4 cylinder vehicle. That's the issue I need answered. Would a 4 cylinder do the job? Or would it tear up the transmission. I don't want a lager vehicle for MPG reasons. Thanks, Ryan |
#12
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towing a sailplane trailer / vehicle
Ryan,
I tow my glider with a 2005 Subaru Forester with the 2.5 liter four cylinder, non-turbocharged gasoline engine, with 4 speed automatic transmission. Before I found the car, I first towed my trailer with a friend's car, fully loaded with glider, tail dolly, tow-out gear, wash bucket, wing stand, folding chair, etc, to a truck stop and weighed the trailer on the scales. Result: 2,040 lbs! A LOT heavier than I had anticipated. Tongue weight is 180 lbs. That, too is a lot more than anticipated. But once I knew the weight of the trailer, I knew what I had to look for in a tow vehicle. Oh, by the way, the "tow vehicle" was going to be my every day driver, too. So, it had to be affordable to purchase and to drive. And the Subaru fit the bill. The Forester is rated to tow 2,400 lbs (in America. Seems to be different in different countries. Lawyers at work?) if the trailer has brakes. Only 1,000 lbs if the trailer doesn't have brakes. My trailer, a Swan, has brakes. Max tongue weight is 200 lbs. While my trailer weighs less than the maximum allowable tow weight, I did have an automatic transmission oil cooler installed. Necessary? I don't know. But I had it installed anyway. Subaru doesn't offer an auxillary transmission cooler (the stock setup routes transmission oil to a section of the radiator for cooling), so I had an independant transmission shop install it for me. Here on the east coast of USA, the Subaru tows the trailer just fine. I have towed it up the steep climbs on I-77 through North Carolina, Virginia and West Virginia without problems. On those climbs, I pulled the transmission down to third gear and continued on at about 50 mph. I've pulled it up to New Castle, VA without any problems. Now, one caveat is that on all these trips, the outside temperature was cool. I've never had the opportunity to tow it up through the mountains on a hot day. There is a transmission temperature "idiot light" that is supposed to come on when the transmission gets hot. I've never seen it come on. Not really sure if that means the tranny is toast once it comes on, or just saying to pull over and let it cool down before preceeding on... Gas mileage towing varies from 20 - 22 mpg. Without the trailer, on the highway, it gets about 26 mpg. As an everyday driver, it does just fine. No, it's not as refined as my previous Honda Accord. It's noiser in the cabin, less room, somewhat "cheaper" looking than either the Accord or my wife's Hyundai Sonata. But here's the main point: It is rated to tow my trailer. Nothing else matters. Since it has the non-turbo engine, it burns regular ocatane gasoline. Go with the turbo option, and you have to use premium gasoline. Your fun factor goes up, but so does the gas bill. The new Outbacks can be bought, in America, with a new 3.5 liter six cylinder engine and it uses regular octane gasoline. I think in the previous six, you had to use premium. If you get the four cylinder, I think you get a continuously variable transmission, and I don't know how that would work out for towing. In Europe, the Forester is available with a four cylinder turbo- diesel. Too bad we don't have that available in America. Not yet, anyway. So, I can recommend a Subaru for towing your trailer. Ray Lovinggood Carrboro, North Carolina, USA |
#13
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towing a sailplane trailer / vehicle
As a Brit, I just love these US discussions about the impossibilty of
towing glider trailers with anything that doesn't weigh at least 3 tons, with a huge gas guzzling V8 engine. Due to our Government's dependence on fuel duties, which are extortionate, most of us own quite modest sized cars, but we still tow glider trailers around. A 1.6 litre vehicle will tow a single seater glider trailer perfectly well and 2.0 litres for a two seater trailer. It is probably best to keep the speed below 60 mph though (legal speed limit for trailers anyway in the UK) . Automatic gearboxes may need an oil cooler fitted. Derek Copeland On Oct 30, 12:33*pm, rlovinggood wrote: Ryan, I tow my glider with a 2005 Subaru Forester with the 2.5 liter four cylinder, non-turbocharged gasoline engine, with 4 speed automatic transmission. Before I found the car, I first towed my trailer with a friend's car, fully loaded with glider, tail dolly, tow-out gear, wash bucket, wing stand, folding chair, etc, to a truck stop and weighed the trailer on the scales. *Result: *2,040 lbs! *A LOT heavier than I had anticipated. *Tongue weight is 180 lbs. *That, too is a lot more than anticipated. *But once I knew the weight of the trailer, I knew what I had to look for in a tow vehicle. *Oh, by the way, the "tow vehicle" was going to be my every day driver, too. *So, it had to be affordable to purchase and to drive. *And the Subaru fit the bill. The Forester is rated to tow 2,400 lbs (in America. *Seems to be different in different countries. *Lawyers at work?) if the trailer has brakes. *Only 1,000 lbs if the trailer doesn't have brakes. *My trailer, a Swan, has brakes. *Max tongue weight is 200 lbs. While my trailer weighs less than the maximum allowable tow weight, I did have an automatic transmission oil cooler installed. *Necessary? I don't know. *But I had it installed anyway. *Subaru doesn't offer an auxillary transmission cooler (the stock setup routes transmission oil to a section of the radiator for cooling), so I had an independant transmission shop install it for me. Here on the east coast of USA, the Subaru tows the trailer just fine. I have towed it up the steep climbs on I-77 through North Carolina, Virginia and West Virginia without problems. *On those climbs, I pulled the transmission down to third gear and continued on at about 50 mph. *I've pulled it up to New Castle, VA without any problems. Now, one caveat is that on all these trips, the outside temperature was cool. *I've never had the opportunity to tow it up through the mountains on a hot day. *There is a transmission temperature "idiot light" that is supposed to come on when the transmission gets hot. I've never seen it come on. *Not really sure if that means the tranny is toast once it comes on, or just saying to pull over and let it cool down before preceeding on... Gas mileage towing varies from 20 - 22 mpg. *Without the trailer, on the highway, it gets about 26 mpg. *As an everyday driver, it does just fine. *No, it's not as refined as my previous Honda Accord. *It's noiser in the cabin, less room, somewhat "cheaper" looking than either the Accord or my wife's Hyundai Sonata. *But here's the main point: It is rated to tow my trailer. *Nothing else matters. Since it has the non-turbo engine, it burns regular ocatane gasoline. Go with the turbo option, and you have to use premium gasoline. *Your fun factor goes up, but so does the gas bill. The new Outbacks can be bought, in America, with a new 3.5 liter six cylinder engine and it uses regular octane gasoline. *I think in the previous six, you had to use premium. *If you get the four cylinder, I think you get a continuously variable transmission, and I don't know how that would work out for towing. In Europe, the Forester is available with a four cylinder turbo- diesel. *Too bad we don't have that available in America. *Not yet, anyway. So, I can recommend a Subaru for towing your trailer. Ray Lovinggood Carrboro, North Carolina, USA |
#14
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towing a sailplane trailer / vehicle
So how much bearing do I need to put on the tow rating of a vehicle? I
would like a new Ford Ranger with the 2.3L 4 cyl and a manual transmission. The tow rating for that vehicle is only 1,540 lbs. |
#15
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towing a sailplane trailer / vehicle
I have a question, are glider trailers rated to tow above 60MPH. In
Europe where most of the trailers are made (I think) the max speed for a trailer is 60mph /100kph. Just wondering as I see all kinds of clames that people are towing faster than this. Would this be an insurance problem if you had an accident and were going faster than the trailer is rated? Just wondering. Bob (waiting for the wave) |
#16
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towing a sailplane trailer / vehicle
On Oct 30, 8:20*am, delboy wrote:
As a Brit, I just love these US discussions about the impossibilty of towing glider trailers with anything that doesn't weigh at least 3 tons, with a huge gas guzzling V8 engine. Due to our Government's dependence on fuel duties, which are extortionate, most of us own quite modest sized cars, but we still tow glider trailers around. A 1.6 litre vehicle will tow a single seater glider trailer perfectly well and 2.0 litres for a two seater trailer. It is probably best to keep the speed below 60 mph though (legal speed limit for trailers anyway in the UK) . Automatic gearboxes may need an oil cooler fitted. Derek Copeland On Oct 30, 12:33*pm, rlovinggood wrote: Ryan, I tow my glider with a 2005 Subaru Forester with the 2.5 liter four cylinder, non-turbocharged gasoline engine, with 4 speed automatic transmission. Before I found the car, I first towed my trailer with a friend's car, fully loaded with glider, tail dolly, tow-out gear, wash bucket, wing stand, folding chair, etc, to a truck stop and weighed the trailer on the scales. *Result: *2,040 lbs! *A LOT heavier than I had anticipated. *Tongue weight is 180 lbs. *That, too is a lot more than anticipated. *But once I knew the weight of the trailer, I knew what I had to look for in a tow vehicle. *Oh, by the way, the "tow vehicle" was going to be my every day driver, too. *So, it had to be affordable to purchase and to drive. *And the Subaru fit the bill. The Forester is rated to tow 2,400 lbs (in America. *Seems to be different in different countries. *Lawyers at work?) if the trailer has brakes. *Only 1,000 lbs if the trailer doesn't have brakes. *My trailer, a Swan, has brakes. *Max tongue weight is 200 lbs. While my trailer weighs less than the maximum allowable tow weight, I did have an automatic transmission oil cooler installed. *Necessary? I don't know. *But I had it installed anyway. *Subaru doesn't offer an auxillary transmission cooler (the stock setup routes transmission oil to a section of the radiator for cooling), so I had an independant transmission shop install it for me. Here on the east coast of USA, the Subaru tows the trailer just fine. I have towed it up the steep climbs on I-77 through North Carolina, Virginia and West Virginia without problems. *On those climbs, I pulled the transmission down to third gear and continued on at about 50 mph. *I've pulled it up to New Castle, VA without any problems. Now, one caveat is that on all these trips, the outside temperature was cool. *I've never had the opportunity to tow it up through the mountains on a hot day. *There is a transmission temperature "idiot light" that is supposed to come on when the transmission gets hot. I've never seen it come on. *Not really sure if that means the tranny is toast once it comes on, or just saying to pull over and let it cool down before preceeding on... Gas mileage towing varies from 20 - 22 mpg. *Without the trailer, on the highway, it gets about 26 mpg. *As an everyday driver, it does just fine. *No, it's not as refined as my previous Honda Accord. *It's noiser in the cabin, less room, somewhat "cheaper" looking than either the Accord or my wife's Hyundai Sonata. *But here's the main point: It is rated to tow my trailer. *Nothing else matters. Since it has the non-turbo engine, it burns regular ocatane gasoline. Go with the turbo option, and you have to use premium gasoline. *Your fun factor goes up, but so does the gas bill. The new Outbacks can be bought, in America, with a new 3.5 liter six cylinder engine and it uses regular octane gasoline. *I think in the previous six, you had to use premium. *If you get the four cylinder, I think you get a continuously variable transmission, and I don't know how that would work out for towing. In Europe, the Forester is available with a four cylinder turbo- diesel. *Too bad we don't have that available in America. *Not yet, anyway. So, I can recommend a Subaru for towing your trailer. Ray Lovinggood Carrboro, North Carolina, USA- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - As an additional datapoint, I towed my Ka-6 from WI to Elmira NY and back for IVSM behind my 1.8l Mazda Protege 5. The Mazda does have a manual transmission, and I stayed in 4th at around 57mph the entire way. The fuel mileage was pretty atrocious, but I blame the fact that I am towing a slab sided bread box with no aerodynamic refinement whatsoever. Peter |
#17
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towing a sailplane trailer / vehicle
On Oct 30, 10:18*am, Nick S wrote:
So how much bearing do I need to put on the tow rating of a vehicle? I would like a new Ford Ranger with the 2.3L 4 cyl and a manual transmission. The tow rating for that vehicle is only 1,540 lbs. Nick, in my case, I had to put a good bit of bearing on the tow rating of the vehicle. My old homebuilt trailer was very light. Now, that, and the fact that it towed easily, were the ONLY things good about it. My old 1988 Honda Accord 2.0 liter 5-speed manual towed it quite easily. When I got an Accord V-6 with automatic transmission, it towed it even better. Then, I got a new trailer. Boy is it nice, but boy is it heavy, as compared to the old home-built trailer. Unknown to me at the time, it was too heavy for the Accord. The tow rating for the Accord was 1,000 lbs with a 100 lb max tongue weight. Turns out that 180 lb tongue weight of the new trailer came very close to ripping the hitch off of the bottom of the Accord's trunk. There was really not much steel in the Honda to bolt a hitch to, and the strain imposed by the trailer was ripping the bottom of the trunk away from the car. Thus the need to find a different tow vehicle. And thus, my reason for first weighing the loaded trailer, then secondly looking for a tow vehicle. Now after a few thousand miles of towing the trailer with the Subaru, there haven't been any problems. Of course, Your Mileage May Vary... Ray Lovinggood Carrboro, North Carolina, USA |
#18
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towing a sailplane trailer / vehicle
rlovinggood wrote:
lbs with a 100 lb max tongue weight. Turns out that 180 lb tongue weight of the new trailer came very close to ripping the hitch off of This is ridiculous. There's no reason to have a tongue weight of more than about 30 to 40 pounds. That you bought a new car rather than rebalancing the trailer is even more ridiculous. If Europeans want a faster plane, they refine the aerodynamics. If Americans want a faster plane, they mount a bigger engine. |
#19
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towing a sailplane trailer / vehicle
On Oct 30, 2:18*pm, Nick S wrote:
So how much bearing do I need to put on the tow rating of a vehicle? I would like a new Ford Ranger with the 2.3L 4 cyl and a manual transmission. The tow rating for that vehicle is only 1,540 lbs. I think that you will find that figure is for an UNBRAKED trailer (750 kg to us Europeans). Nearly all glider trailers are fitted with overrun brakes. In the UK there is a recommendation (although not a law) that the weight of the trailer should not exceed 85% of the kerb weight of the towing vehicle. Most vehicles are capable of towing much more than this, but you need to check the manufacturer's handbook for exact details. Derek Copeland |
#20
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towing a sailplane trailer / vehicle
On Oct 30, 8:06*am, John Smith wrote:
rlovinggood wrote: lbs with a 100 lb max tongue weight. *Turns out that 180 lb tongue weight of the new trailer came very close to ripping the hitch off of This is ridiculous. There's no reason to have a tongue weight of more than about 30 to 40 pounds. That you bought a new car rather than rebalancing the trailer is even more ridiculous. If Europeans want a faster plane, they refine the aerodynamics. If Americans want a faster plane, they mount a bigger engine. Yes there is. Recommended tongue weight is 10% of trailer weight. My Komet trailer is almost exactly that. Our club Komet with the LS-4 in it has, as you stated, about 30-50 pounds tongue weight. My trailer is stable to well over 75 mph. The LS-4 trailer can get very ugly around/above 65. Of course, it's not a problem if you're willing to keep the speed down. |
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