Finland - USA 2-0

On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 20:39:30 +0000, "Paul J. Adam" wrote:

In message , Alan Minyard
writes
On Tue, 04 Nov 2003 01:09:56 GMT, "Bjørnar Bolsøy" bbolsoy@
nospam.nospam wrote:
Which particular european nations and medical care system
are you refering to?

All of them. They are decades behind the US Medical Care
system.

Provided you're adequately insured, US healthcare is by all accounts
very good.

One great benefit of living in the UK is that I don't have to worry
about my insurers causing me harm to save money, or refusing to cover my
treatment.

We have laws (particularly one called COBRA) that prevents any hospital
from refusing treatment on the basis of ability to pay. The vast majority of
hospitals in the US write off millions of dollars a year as uncollectable
debts.

Al Minyard

On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 20:49:56 +0000, "Paul J. Adam" wrote:

In message , Alan Minyard
writes
On Tue, 04 Nov 2003 08:04:26 GMT, "Bjørnar" wrote:
In war-time you would shoot first and ask later if your're not
100% certain.

For some, though, the issue is blurred.

I am a very qualified pistol shot, trained in combat shooting.
Shooting me "dead" from anything other than an ambush
would be rather difficult.

Dreadfully easy, Al. I match your pistol and raise you a section of
troops with scoped rifles and support weapons, and the firefight starts
at two hundred yards. I'll even let you fire first. (If it's wartime
then "fighting fair" is for the survivors on the losing side to console
themselves with)

No one said anything about war or troops. If you want to go to a
war scenario I really do not think that you would want to mess
with the US


The way to kill an alert armed man is to deceive rather than to
outshoot. Don't leap out, wild-eyed and frantic, shouting "Die, American
pig-dog-scum!"; but (for example) man a tidy, disciplined vehicle check
point and politely ask to see identification and travel documents (the
"Excuse Me, Meester?" ploy).

Not how street thugs operate.

There's a _reason_ pistols are considered to be self-defence weapons of
last resort by most militaries, however entertaining they are to shoot
for sport and even to train with.

Of course, especially the nearly useless 9mm rounds. I carry a .45
Colt. I also have several rifles that will greatly out shoot the 5,6mm.

If you expected to fight, you should have brought a rifle: US helicopter
pilots in Desert Storm and Somalia fully grasped that concept (the USMC
have complained about a AH-1 modification, because they stored two M-16s
on the inner door of the ammunition bay in case they were forced down
and the modification precluded that... the Marines understood full well
that if you're being pursued by angry men with rifles, a rifle of your
own will at least slow the pursuit down in a way a pistol never can)

Once again, we were (at least I thought we were) discussing crime, not
war.

For europe, everything is "blurred"

Less so than you might think.

Al Minyard

On Tue, 04 Nov 2003 23:17:34 GMT, "Bjørnar Bolsøy" wrote:

Alan Minyard wrote in
:
On Tue, 04 Nov 2003 01:09:56 GMT, "Bjørnar Bolsøy"
wrote:

Which particular european nations and medical care system
are you refering to?


Regards...

All of them. They are decades behind the US Medical Care
system.

Well, how exactly?



Regards...

They do not have the requisite number of MRIs CTs etc.
They do not have adequate ambulance services (I am
talking about the equipment, not the Paramedics). They
still have hospitals with open wards (nearly all of the hospitals
in the US are private rooms only). It is a matter of adequate
resources, research, surgical techniques etc. It is not an
accident the twins co-joined at the head/brain come
to the US from all over the world to be separated (at
no cost to the parents).

Al Minyard

In article ,
Alan Minyard wrote:

"Bjørnar Bolsøy" wrote:

Alan Minyard wrote:

All of them. They are decades behind the US Medical Care
system.

Well, how exactly?

They do not have the requisite number of MRIs CTs etc.

For example, there are supposedly more MRI machines in Orlando, Florida
than there are in all of England - the place they were invented.

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

They do not have the requisite number of MRIs CTs etc.
They do not have adequate ambulance services (I am
talking about the equipment, not the Paramedics). They
still have hospitals with open wards (nearly all of the hospitals
in the US are private rooms only). It is a matter of adequate
resources, research, surgical techniques etc. It is not an
accident the twins co-joined at the head/brain come
to the US from all over the world to be separated (at
no cost to the parents).

It would be interesting to see some actual figures of the efficiency of
medical systems around the world.

In message , Marcus
Andersson writes
"NEMO ME IMPUNE" wrote in message
...
How many Aircraft carriers in Finland?


(since when does this thread have anything to do with aircraft
carriers? Besides, I don't have a clue what this thread has to do in
the rec.aviation.military group.)

That being said, Finland does have around 60 F-18 Hornets, so I guess
they must have a couple of aircraft carriers too. I mean, why else
would they have carrier-planes?


It is worth bearing in mind that Finland has a smaller population than
several US cities, and how many of them can boast that sort of defence?

--
Julian Barker

"Many battles have been fought and won by
soldiers nourished on beer,and the King does not
believe that coffee-drinking soldiers can be
relied upon to endure hardships in case of
another war."
Frederick the Great, 1777

Alan Minyard wrote in
:
On Tue, 04 Nov 2003 23:17:34 GMT, "Bjørnar Bolsøy"
wrote:
Alan Minyard wrote in
m:
On Tue, 04 Nov 2003 01:09:56 GMT, "Bjørnar Bolsøy"
wrote:

Which particular european nations and medical care system
are you refering to?


Regards...

All of them. They are decades behind the US Medical Care
system.

Well, how exactly?



Regards...

They do not have the requisite number of MRIs CTs etc.
They do not have adequate ambulance services (I am
talking about the equipment, not the Paramedics). They
still have hospitals with open wards (nearly all of the
hospitals in the US are private rooms only).

Are these personal assertions, or what sources you
base these numbers on? What does this say about
a countrys health service in general? There are
other factors involved.


It is a matter of
adequate resources, research, surgical techniques etc. It is not
an accident the twins co-joined at the head/brain come
to the US from all over the world to be separated (at
no cost to the parents).

Al Minyard

Well, I guess some of this is true, but Europe is about
40 nations with a great deal of variation in both
quality, high-tech gadgetory and service. It seems to
me you treat Europe as a one common unity, which to
me seems at least as silly (pardon the french) as treating
the US as one great state with common laws and practise.

Many European countries have a fully modern health service,
not at least free medical care for everyone (like here
in Norway).



Regards...

"Bjørnar Bolsøy" wrote
Many European countries have a fully modern health service,
not at least free medical care for everyone (like here
in Norway).


Unless hospitals spring up out of thin air, and doctors and nurses work
gratis, there is no *free*.

The payment you make is merely called something different.

Pete

"Pete" wrote in
:
"Bjørnar Bolsøy" wrote

Many European countries have a fully modern health service,
not at least free medical care for everyone (like here
in Norway).


Unless hospitals spring up out of thin air, and doctors and
nurses work gratis, there is no *free*.

The payment you make is merely called something different.

The crucial difference is that it's baked into the
normal taxes and that medicare is given to anyone
whom needs it, nomatter what taxpaying status.

It means if you have an accident, you don't have
to worry.

In many cases you will also get a social refund if you
have direct expenses connected with treatment, for
instance for medicine or physioteraphy treatment due to
an overstrained back or arm.

If the hospital can't treat you, you're transfered to
one that can. In some cases even overseas.

One negative effect, of course, is capasity, the waiting
queues can be long for certain kinds of treatment.
Typically the more severe ones which require complex
treatment. But private clinics are of course an
alternative too.


Regards...

"Bjørnar Bolsøy" wrote:

"Pete" wrote in
:
"Bjørnar Bolsøy" wrote

Many European countries have a fully modern health service,
not at least free medical care for everyone (like here
in Norway).


Unless hospitals spring up out of thin air, and doctors and
nurses work gratis, there is no *free*.

The payment you make is merely called something different.

The crucial difference is that it's baked into the
normal taxes and that medicare is given to anyone
whom needs it, nomatter what taxpaying status.

It means if you have an accident, you don't have
to worry.

In many cases you will also get a social refund if you
have direct expenses connected with treatment, for
instance for medicine or physioteraphy treatment due to
an overstrained back or arm.

If the hospital can't treat you, you're transfered to
one that can. In some cases even overseas.

One negative effect, of course, is capasity, the waiting
queues can be long for certain kinds of treatment.
Typically the more severe ones which require complex
treatment. But private clinics are of course an
alternative too.


Regards...

Sounds like Canada's system...
--

-Gord.